Training Camp - Sept 24

[Johnny Rotten]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

So many experts on CP. I trust Darryl 2 time cup winner Sutter on D pairings over any random schlub on here. It's day two of on ice training camp. Let it run its course.

And I imagine if the pairings that are presented here today don't work, that it will be possible for Darryl to change them.

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Just a few comments from what I read:


1) The "Brodie can't play the LS" stuff isn't really a thing. Brodie did VERY well on the LS paired with Engelland, and was arguably the best player on the team in those playoffs. Listening to Brodie after that terrible season, he himself stated that it was more about the playstyle as to why he had a poor season, and didn't even mention the LS. Is he better on the RS? Yes, but he is still good on the left. Playstyle + having to play with Hamonic = crap Brodie. Everything else = great defencemen. Look how much better Hanifin was last season after playing with Tanev or Andersson vs Hamonic too.



2) There are a number of thoughts about defensive pairings. Sure, having a stacked top pair is super awesome. Hopefully they can play 30 minutes a night too (doubtful). Even with the best case scenario of them being able to play half the minutes, what about the other half?



Andersson was awful last season. There was some advanced metrics posted up early this week which showed how terrible Andersson was (was it puck battles? I think that was it IIRC, but I might be wrong). I hope Andersson rebounds, but he is the slowest defencemen out there (maybe Gudbranson is slower now, but I that's not a given).


Zadorov isn't slow, but his agility is subpar - that's his weakness in his skating. It helps that he is big and has a reach, but having poor agility (not poor really, but probably below average) + a slower defencemen on a tandem may not be ideal.


Valimaki has shown he has some nice tools, but last season he has shown he is not ready for big minutes and more responsibility. Until he can show that in real game situations consistently, then he is a 3rd pairing young and (hopefully) improving defencemen. Makes sense to keep him there until he proves us otherwise. Gudbranson in the top 4 would be a mistake.


I think this is a rather logical way to approach the defence this year.


Last season, Hanifin - Tanev were essentially a 'shut-down' pairing - they contributed practically zero offensively for a long time, but were the best defensive pairing in the NHL. That has to change. Giordano is gone, and he was (once again) the top point producer on defence. Hanifin HAS to take that step forward. Having the best skating defencemen on the pair with the worst (at least in my opinion) is probably a good idea.



Zadorov has some pretty decent underlying metrics in terms of shot-suppression - perhaps him and Tanev can work well together being a 'shut-down' pairing (there really isn't anything else to their game, so if they can't form a formidable shut-down pairing, this season is going to get tough - good news, however - I expect them to be a good shut-down pairing). I am not a fan of shut-down pairings in this modern NHL - but at least this will be a more physical pairing while they do it too, which adds at least something else. I believe that as a defencemen, you need to be able to offer 2 things - the modern NHL defencemen should be able to offer offence/defence, or at least 'transition-playmaking/defence' (Brodie, and hopefully Hanifin this year). If not, and you are ONLY good at defence, you are not as valuable to your team in terms of winning games. Being physical and difficult to play against is adding something (not as important as offence obviously) but at least something 'more'. Nobody was scared playing against the top defensive pair last year, though perhaps frustrated. Hopefully this season they will both be frustrated and hurt.


I am not sure those pairings will work, but I think it makes sense for now. Zadorov - Tanev get the best lines. Hanifin - Andersson can be on the ice with Gaudreau - Monahan - Mangipane and hopefully be a fast strike offence type of unit. Zadorov - Tanev with Tkachuk-Lindholm-Coleman will be more of a 200ft line, and Zadorov can be there to get in those scrums with Tkachuk too.


Obviously being 4 lines and 3 defence pairings will shake things up somewhat, but I would like to see those combinations on the ice often. Backlund's line will of course get a lot of time with the Tanev pairing, as they are going to go up against the top lines most nights I assume.


This is going to be an interesting experiment, that's for sure. On paper, and based on last season's numbers, this is probably the lowest scoring defensive corps in the league, no? If not, it must be one of the lowest scoring on paper. I think they will still be solidly in the bottom 3rd at least after this season is over, but who knows? I won't say that Hanifin won't improve (his progression in terms of defence blew me away last season, as I didn't think he had the IQ to consistently be in such a good defensive position). Maybe he takes a step forward. Maybe Andersson took to heart what Sutter said about conditioning, and he has the energy to win more puck battles and take even a half-step forward offensively (great tools mostly, and I really think his footspeed has hurt him from taking that next step).


I will stop it there as we all know about Valimaki/Kylington - both very good offensive toolsets in different ways, but you can't count on them given their history thus far (but I bet both will be in the NHL for a long time - they are both 'modern' NHL defencemen that I think will have long careers as they continue to improve).


I am eager to see what this team can do this year. I am eager to see how hard they work every shift, and how quickly different players get put into the doghouse as Sutter breaks their bad habits that were ignored by Gulutzan, Peters and Ward. Yes, Peters too - Neal was only scratched once since signing here, and that was the last game of the playoffs - he was a blackhole everywhere on this roster and continually looked like he was barely making an effort - especially defensively - but he kept getting his minutes with Gaudreau - Monahan after every penalty kill).


This will hopefully be a breath of fresh air type of season. Team may not win a cup this year (with Sutter, who really knows??? lol). However, I bet they are an easier team to cheer, and I bet a few players will hit career highs or near career highs (Gaudreau and Monahan).

Love, the write up and opinions. Only quibble is "career highs". I would be ecstatic with career highs, but I think that unlikethey do well if only returning to career norms while playing Sutters defensively responsible system. Sutter hasn't historically resulted in career high in points. I think Sutter is right: if the team can get a half a goal for a game and prevent a half a goal against a game, then they would be a much stronger team.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by flambers

Same thing with Bruce Boudreau, he was on the Radio yesterday shortly after 11am

Boudreau isn’t really hooked in though. Didn’t he have a complete brain fart commenting on something last season? Talked about a player who wasn’t even on the right team, or maybe even retired?

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Wish They Could Win

I bet by mid season the defence looks more like…

Hanifin-Andersson
Valimaki-Tanev
Zadorov-Stone

Kylington-Gudbranson only playing spot duty based on opponents or injuries.

My guess is that Sutter is starting Valimaki lower on the depth chart to make him earn it. He also has less pressure there so he can work on his game with less minutes until he is truly ready for that bigger role.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bottom pairing of Zadorov-Kylington. Kylington knows that this is his last chance to impress, as is shown in his conditioning. Having a defensive defenseman paired with the fastest guy on the team could be a really dynamic third pairing.

I also think that Mackie and Kinvall are going to start making a big push for some NHL time this year. The two of them together make a pretty prototypical second pairing, and it would be a nice surprise.

[jaikorven]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Boudreau isn’t really hooked in though. Didn’t he have a complete brain fart commenting on something last season? Talked about a player who wasn’t even on the right team, or maybe even retired?

I remember this as well, but can't recall the particular details.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

He certainly took "back to the gym" to heart.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

He certainly took "back to the gym" to heart.

Gio said that to one of the Sens.

[dammage79]

Hahaha. Coleman and Zadorov both just slapping the YYC media around in a good way today.

Zadorov to Francis after Francis asks if he thinks he can handle top 4 minutes since he didn't in chicago:

"Do you even watch hockey? I played on Chicago's top pair 80% of the season. Yeah, I can handle top 4 minutes"

And then Coleman was more diplomatic but he laughed and correct a couple of other reporters and laughed at some of Zadorovs questions.

[gvitaly]

Interviews

Sutter:
https://twitter.com/NHLFlames/status...30382600519683
Coleman & Zadorov:
https://twitter.com/NHLFlames/status...26607844454400
Markstorm:
https://twitter.com/NHLFlames/status...19057988161540
Vladar:
https://twitter.com/NHLFlames/status...11740626272268

[AC]

Direct video links for those that want them:

[dammage79]

I like Vladar. My favorite of all of trees moves this year.

Ah heck, I like all 3 big acquisitions, Coleman, Vladar and Xadorov. All 3 have more to give in an increased role and I believe they can deliver.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Gio said that to one of the Sens.

Yes, I'm aware.

[Canada 02]

from the Zadorov interview, what the hell is wrong with Francis?

[Canada 02]

nm

[monkeyman]

Im loving the character and attitude I’m seeing in the interviews from the new guys. Just awesome.

[Macman]

I wished the Flames would have done one of those HBO shows with a new season with Sutter here. Darryl looks refreshed and spoke well on that interview yesterday, I'm going to have to catch up on some of the other players.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

from the Zadorov interview, what the hell is wrong with Francis?

Better you should ask, what the hell is right with Francis? It would probably be a much shorter answer.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

from the Zadorov interview, what the hell is wrong with Francis?

Haven't even watched, but he's fully leaning into his little niche of blunt d-baggery.

He even went after Gaudreau about contract details despite the announcement beforehand about not addressing it.

AND confonted Tkachuk about his quotes regarding his brother's negotiations.

I'm just surprised at how restrained the players have been responding to him.

But then again it's early lol.

[monkeyman]

You know the word about Francis and his lack of professionalism, tact and overall ######baggery is shared amongst the players in the dressing room. I still remember him asking Ritchie if he feels lucky playing on the top line and not in the KHL.

[bubbsy]

I thought the questions were fine. I'm already a fan of zadorov. Think it could be a really interesting add for the flames. Seems like a cool honest kid.