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Old 09-24-2021, 05:40 PM   #8481
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Yes, right.

But that also only illustrates even more how bad the timing was, and how deaf they were to the environment they were operating in.
I disagree. Worse timing would have been drastic cuts to health and education that were needed to balance a budget. For a province with a severe revenue problem, something had to be done. Cutting during a recession would have been far worse than making the rich pay a little extra.

I think a conservative government in power would have left Alberta is a far worse position than we are now.
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Old 09-24-2021, 05:49 PM   #8482
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Hahaha...someone just mentioned the "Alberta Advantage".

The myth of low taxes having anything whatsoever to do with the boom years is up there with Santa Claus.
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Old 09-24-2021, 05:50 PM   #8483
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Or how about a PST with a certain income level? Would you be okay with an income id card and then you can pay your PST. Asking people who make less than 50K to pay more taxes is not fair imo.
Terrible idea, and difficult/expense to administer. People living on dividends etc would be exempt, which would suck.

GST/PST/HST don't need a filter like that, as they are self-correcting: the poor aren't buying many goods that qualify anyway. That's why they are attractive tax strategies - they tax those that are doing the spending.
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Old 09-24-2021, 05:54 PM   #8484
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Or how about a PST with a certain income level? Would you be okay with an income id card and then you can pay your PST. Asking people who make less than 50K to pay more taxes is not fair imo.
Yeah I'm down. Flat taxes aren't as good as progressive taxes. Happy to have my tax returns from the previous year tied to a PST that meets a progressive rate, same as progressive income tax. Higher earners tend to consume more, and there is a societal cost to that consumption.

Then again, I am also for centralizing all data of citizens and having all Tax, SIN, Healthcare, and necessary personal information for a complete end-to-end delivery of e-services based on digital data. I'm also down for biometrics and retina scans if it means retaining unique identity and preventing cyber crime and identity theft.

So in short - progressive consumption tax is good IMO.
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Old 09-24-2021, 05:57 PM   #8485
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Hahaha...someone just mentioned the "Alberta Advantage".

The myth of low taxes having anything whatsoever to do with the boom years is up there with Santa Claus.
hahaha... what a clueless comment.

Businesses came to Alberta, not because of O&G but because of lower taxes.

My wife's business and my business both moved their head offices here at the same time. That brought dozens of jobs here (now grown to hundreds). And as someone who works with business owners, I have talked to countless business owners who came here to run their businesses here, in a more favorable tax environment.

It was always the main reason people came here. Lower taxes brought new businesses, which created jobs.

That is why Calgary was always 2nd in Canada with respect to head offices.

But yeah.... hahaha is certainly a useful comment.
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Old 09-24-2021, 06:00 PM   #8486
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hahaha... what a clueless comment.

Businesses came to Alberta, not because of O&G but because of lower taxes.

My wife's business and my business both moved their head offices here at the same time. That brought dozens of jobs here (now grown to hundreds). And as someone who works with business owners, I have talked to countless business owners who came here to run their businesses here, in a more favorable tax environment.

It was always the main reason people came here. Lower taxes brought new businesses, which created jobs.

That is why Calgary was always 2nd in Canada with respect to head offices.

But yeah.... hahaha is certainly a useful comment.
Lower taxes have historically been an offset to higher wages for businesses operating in Alberta. That has kept our economy more diversified than it otherwise would have been.

But I guess we could increase taxes and let the government pick winners in media and tech industries. That always works well...
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Old 09-24-2021, 06:08 PM   #8487
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I just don't think a PST across the board for everyone is really fair for people not making say above 50K if you want to use that number. It's easy to say wealthier people consume more and therefore would pay the PST more often. You still have to declare dividends as income on your personnel income tax return.

Why shouldn't people who earn less not be able to go and buy nice things, they just have to save longer and shouldn't be penalized for it with extra taxes. Wages haven't kept up with the cost of living and inflation for a lot of people.

Wouldn't it just be easier to increase taxes on higher earners? And you could start at 60k for example.
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Old 09-24-2021, 06:23 PM   #8488
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I just don't think a PST across the board for everyone is really fair for people not making say above 50K if you want to use that number. It's easy to say wealthier people consume more and therefore would pay the PST more often. You still have to declare dividends as income on your personnel income tax return.

Why shouldn't people who earn less not be able to go and buy nice things, they just have to save longer and shouldn't be penalized for it with extra taxes. Wages haven't kept up with the cost of living and inflation for a lot of people.

Wouldn't it just be easier to increase taxes on higher earners? And you could start at 60k for example.
Again, very difficult to administer. Also, we already tax higher earners more.
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Old 09-24-2021, 06:43 PM   #8489
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I just don't think a PST across the board for everyone is really fair for people not making say above 50K if you want to use that number. It's easy to say wealthier people consume more and therefore would pay the PST more often. You still have to declare dividends as income on your personnel income tax return.

Why shouldn't people who earn less not be able to go and buy nice things, they just have to save longer and shouldn't be penalized for it with extra taxes. Wages haven't kept up with the cost of living and inflation for a lot of people.

Wouldn't it just be easier to increase taxes on higher earners? And you could start at 60k for example.
This is a non-issue. You roll the PST into an HST, and you refund it just like they do the GST for low income earners. The solution exists, and is in place. No need to fret.
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Old 09-24-2021, 06:45 PM   #8490
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This is not true, and its not about moral standing, its about limited health care resources and outcomes data. For elective surgeries (eg. joint replacements) surgeons can absolutely insist that a patient stop smoking and lose weight before they do the surgery, effectively deprioritizing those patients for others with better life decision making. Organ transplant waitlist priority would employ similiar judgements.

Now that we are officially entering wartime era triaging, the acute stroke guy knocking on the door of the ICU with severe coronary artery disease and end stage emphysema directly as a result of 50 years+ smoking is probably not getting an ICU bed.

For the record, we have been told by the College that vaccination status cannot be used to determine ICU triage. However, with a broad mandate to restrict ICU admissions to those who are likely to survive past 1 year, and with data showing a major difference in outcomes for vaccinated vs. unvaccinated, it could potentially enter into the decision making process as one purely objective variable amongst many.
Speaking of which, they've stop doing them becuase they have no ICU to use. So now perfectly useful organs are going to waste, and people will die. Even worse, many people will need kidney and lung transplants from covid in the future. Every extra covid case is a huge drain on resources, now and for years to come.

This government is actively killing its citizens. They need to go, yesterday. Is there really no way to fix this? We just sit back and let it happen? So infuriating.
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Old 09-24-2021, 06:47 PM   #8491
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Speaking of which, they've stop doing them becuase they have no ICU to use. So now perfectly useful organs are going to waste, and people will die. Even worse, many people will need kidney and lung transplants from covid in the future. Every extra covid case is a huge drain on resources, now and for years to come.

This government is actively killing its citizens. They need to go, yesterday. Is there really no way to fix this? We just sit back and let it happen? So infuriating.
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Old 09-24-2021, 06:51 PM   #8492
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Your profile says your in NZ, why do you care? I don't think anybody who voted for Kenney could have predicted the disaster in the last month alone.
I live in Calgary. I voted in the 2019 election. Anyone with an iota of intelligence could have seen the UCP's very right-wing position on healthcare, even before the pandemic. So yeah, I care.
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Old 09-24-2021, 08:10 PM   #8493
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Once I got to a professional position where I was paying larger amounts of tax, I had options as to where I would live. One of the more significant factors for me staying in Alberta long term was the long, hot summers, and mild winters. And the lower tax rate.

I know it’s totally anecdotal, and I don’t know how widespread (numerically) that is a factor, but I do know of several others who had similar choices and stayed or moved to Alberta.

Not to defend the UCP at this point…based on the last couple of months, I can’t vote for them again. If there was an election tomorrow, I would even vote for the NDP before the UCP. And I thought the NPD were a mess when they were in power last time.
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Old 09-24-2021, 09:42 PM   #8494
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Wouldn't implementing a long overdue PST to raise revenues since the O/G economy is no longer reliable to use royalties as vehicle for operational funding be "raising taxes?"

And what, exactly, is the problem with this?
Or you could just dispense with the crappy temporally regressive taxes like VATS, and tax people on income and capital gains so everyone gets hit with tax at the same time, so you aren't letting the affluent collect interest and gains on money that should be funding social programs.
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Old 09-24-2021, 09:44 PM   #8495
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Your profile says your in NZ, why do you care? I don't think anybody who voted for Kenney could have predicted the disaster in the last month alone.
I'm sure if you find posts from me in 2019 on this thread I predicted the UPC would be a disaster.

I feel like I'm somebody.
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Old 09-24-2021, 10:22 PM   #8496
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I would hope that after the messes in SK, ON, and AB over the last few years that people come to their senses and realize that that brand of Canadian conservatism is at best incompetent and at worst dangerous and inhumane.
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Old 09-24-2021, 10:43 PM   #8497
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I would hope that after the messes in SK, ON, and AB over the last few years that people come to their senses and realize that that brand of Canadian conservatism is at best incompetent and at worst dangerous and inhumane.
"yeah but it's OUR incompetence! That gets a pass compared to left wing incompetence. Folks might die, but it was done for the economy!!"
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Old 09-24-2021, 11:22 PM   #8498
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Once I got to a professional position where I was paying larger amounts of tax, I had options as to where I would live. One of the more significant factors for me staying in Alberta long term was the long, hot summers, and mild winters. And the lower tax rate.

I know it’s totally anecdotal, and I don’t know how widespread (numerically) that is a factor, but I do know of several others who had similar choices and stayed or moved to Alberta.

Not to defend the UCP at this point…based on the last couple of months, I can’t vote for them again. If there was an election tomorrow, I would even vote for the NDP before the UCP. And I thought the NPD were a mess when they were in power last time.
See? I knew you’d come around eventually. Common ground, here we come!
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Old 09-25-2021, 07:50 AM   #8499
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One of the more significant factors for me staying in Alberta long term was the long, hot summers, and mild winters.
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Old 09-25-2021, 08:55 AM   #8500
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I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone describe Alberta as having long hot summers or mild winters.

Moving because of taxes is like taking a job with a higher salary except it has worse working conditions, longer hours, no health benefits, no dental coverage, no rsp matching etc.

There’s more to life than just your tax rate.
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