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Old 09-24-2021, 08:50 AM   #81
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https://twitter.com/user/status/1441409868263354373
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Old 09-24-2021, 08:57 AM   #82
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Get it done, Tre.

Sometimes people deserve to have their faith rewarded.
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Old 09-24-2021, 09:16 AM   #83
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I am guessing that based on Kypreos tweet, that other teams have concerns about the surgery that Eichel is looking to get.

I think this gets done before training camp and I think the Flames need to be front and center on this. This is a franchise center that the flames are not likely being able to grab in the next few years in the draft, as I don't see ownership wanting a rebuild.
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Old 09-24-2021, 10:05 AM   #84
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Seems perfectly reasonable to want conditions on Eichelís performance/health after the trade and surgery. Those conditions would obviously be placed on the picks that would be included. If eichel returns to being what he was before injuryÖ Adams will get the haul of picks that he wants for what heís bragging eichel is right now (a franchise-level young center). If eichel doesnít return to form or healthÖ then heíll be getting a teamís top prospects for a player that is a shadow of his former self or may not even play at a high level ever again. In either case, it ends up being a good return for Buffalo.

Feels like Adams is making a point to fleece someone in a deal instead of just making it a good return for a good player. Imagine something like this:

Zary
Pelletier
Dube
Conditional 2022 first round pick
Conditional 2023 first round pick

Flames would have to move salary of course but they could wait till eichel is healthy to do that. That could be in the offseason if they end up pulling a kucherov with eichel.

Conditions on 2022 pick: if eichel puts up at least 50 points this season or if the flames make the playoffs, itís a 1st round pick (thatís top 3 protected). If not, itís a 2nd round pick. If the pick ends up being a top 3 pick and the flames choose to keep the pick, all conditions on the 2023 first round pick are waived and an additional 2nd round pick and 3rd round pick are added to the package.

Conditions on the 2023 pick: if eichel scores at least 70 points in 2022-2023 or if the flames make the playoffs in 2023, itís a first round pick. If not, itís 2 x 2nd round picks (one in 2023 and another in 2024).

Best case scenario for Buffalo:

Flames miss the playoffs in 2022 and eichel puts up 50 points (could be a top ten pick).
Flames miss playoffs in 2023 but eichel puts up 70 points (could be a lottery pick).

Worst case scenario for Buffalo (and worst case for Calgary too if they just miss playoffs and donít get a high pick):

Eichel does not put up 50 points this season and the flames miss the playoffs this season.
Eichel puts up less than 70 points next season and the flames miss the playoffs next season as well.

Last edited by stemit14; 09-24-2021 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 09-24-2021, 11:24 AM   #85
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You can almost guaranty that no matter which procedure he has done that the balance of his contract will not be covered by any insurance company.

The devil will very much be in the details. Geico is a league partner and through them every team in the league insures ~5-7 of their biggest contracts.



Whether an existing policy might be transferable would be a complicated but important issue for the league and PA for rare situations like this.
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Old 09-24-2021, 11:50 AM   #86
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Get it done.
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Old 09-24-2021, 12:27 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by stemit14 View Post
Seems perfectly reasonable to want conditions on Eichelís performance/health after the trade and surgery. Those conditions would obviously be placed on the picks that would be included. If eichel returns to being what he was before injuryÖ Adams will get the haul of picks that he wants for what heís bragging eichel is right now (a franchise-level young center). If eichel doesnít return to form or healthÖ then heíll be getting a teamís top prospects for a player that is a shadow of his former self or may not even play at a high level ever again. In either case, it ends up being a good return for Buffalo.

Feels like Adams is making a point to fleece someone in a deal instead of just making it a good return for a good player. Imagine something like this:

Zary
Pelletier
Dube
Conditional 2022 first round pick
Conditional 2023 first round pick

Flames would have to move salary of course but they could wait till eichel is healthy to do that. That could be in the offseason if they end up pulling a kucherov with eichel.

Conditions on 2022 pick: if eichel puts up at least 50 points this season or if the flames make the playoffs, itís a 1st round pick (thatís top 3 protected). If not, itís a 2nd round pick. If the pick ends up being a top 3 pick and the flames choose to keep the pick, all conditions on the 2023 first round pick are waived and an additional 2nd round pick and 3rd round pick are added to the package.

Conditions on the 2023 pick: if eichel scores at least 70 points in 2022-2023 or if the flames make the playoffs in 2023, itís a first round pick. If not, itís 2 x 2nd round picks (one in 2023 and another in 2024).

Best case scenario for Buffalo:

Flames miss the playoffs in 2022 and eichel puts up 50 points (could be a top ten pick).
Flames miss playoffs in 2023 but eichel puts up 70 points (could be a lottery pick).

Worst case scenario for Buffalo (and worst case for Calgary too if they just miss playoffs and donít get a high pick):

Eichel does not put up 50 points this season and the flames miss the playoffs this season.
Eichel puts up less than 70 points next season and the flames miss the playoffs next season as well.
I would think the conditions would also be attached to Eichel being a part of that success. If Jack never returns to form, but other players step up and the Flames are making the playoffs in spite of JE's 15 goal seasons and a WAR that only Edmonton would think is good, then Buffalo wouldn't be getting more goodies. They already won the trade by getting serviceable prospects.
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Old 09-24-2021, 12:33 PM   #88
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Get it done, Tre.

Sometimes people deserve to have their faith rewarded.
For Flames fans, there is only suffering. Hope exists to be crushed.
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Old 09-24-2021, 12:38 PM   #89
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I would think the conditions would also be attached to Eichel being a part of that success. If Jack never returns to form, but other players step up and the Flames are making the playoffs in spite of JE's 15 goal seasons and a WAR that only Edmonton would think is good, then Buffalo wouldn't be getting more goodies. They already won the trade by getting serviceable prospects.

Agreed. The offers I just put forward still favour Buffalo in the trade over all in terms of risk. The flames would be taking the bigger risk since my trade proposal gives first round picks to Buffalo simply if the flames make the playoffs in both 2022 and 2023 even if eichel plays poorly or not at all. More conditions could be added based solely on Eichelís performance.

There has to be conditions based on the flames making or not making the playoffs this year since, at this point, eichel will miss a significant part of the season and the flames hopes of making the playoffs will likely hinge solely on all the other players. Especially if the flames would have to send roster players out in the trade (Valimaki or Dube or mangiapane or tkachuk for example). Eichel could show up too late to be of any help even if he is a PPG player when he does come back.


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Old 09-24-2021, 12:39 PM   #90
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Dear Tre:

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Old 09-24-2021, 05:20 PM   #91
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If everyone is truly offering conditional compensation, this presents an opportunity IMO. Take a big risk on his procedure working out and offer a package with no conditions, which obviously would be less than if you offered a conditional package and all the conditions end up being met.

It’s a high variance move but considering this franchise seems stuck in neutral, I’d be in favor. If it doesn’t work, no option but to rebuild.
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Old 09-24-2021, 06:14 PM   #92
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I think Eichelís comment helps for sure. He might not have a choice where he goes, but teams donít want to acquire a player that doesnít want to be there. For a smaller market team and teams in Canada, it is good to know that.
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Old 09-24-2021, 09:26 PM   #93
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For some reason, Pelletier in Buffalo has me thinking Danny Gare....
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Old 09-24-2021, 09:30 PM   #94
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So, at what point does Eichel end up suing the Sabres?
Heís getting paid. What would he sue for?
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Old 09-25-2021, 07:00 AM   #95
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More and more I'm thinking that doing a Tampa with Eichels injury is the plan.

Which would be good in the sense that it's pretty much guaranteed the practice gets banned.
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Old 09-25-2021, 07:10 AM   #96
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More and more I'm thinking that doing a Tampa with Eichels injury is the plan.

Which would be good in the sense that it's pretty much guaranteed the practice gets banned.
Buffalo can't make the playoffs WITH Eichel.
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Old 09-25-2021, 10:22 AM   #97
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Can Buffalo put Eichel on LTIR once the season starts and then trade him to a team close to the cap? Would this allow a team like the Flames to exceed the cap and not have to move any money off the roster until Eichel is ready to go?


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Old 09-25-2021, 12:34 PM   #98
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Can Buffalo put Eichel on LTIR once the season starts and then trade him to a team close to the cap? Would this allow a team like the Flames to exceed the cap and not have to move any money off the roster until Eichel is ready to go?
That's possible in theory, but as soon as Eichel is medically cleared to play, that team would be over a barrel. They would have to get rid of the excess cap hit at once, and I think you can safely assume other teams would not be doing them any favours. It would be a hell of a risk, unless you already know Eichel won't be able to play during the regular season.
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Old 09-25-2021, 01:19 PM   #99
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I am starting to despise the Sabres more each day.

Yeah, I get it, it sucks. Your franchise C wants out and just happens to be injured. Terrible luck and timing. But FFS you can't expect teams to trade you full value for him as if he was 100% healthy.

It's ####ing ridiculous.
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Old 09-25-2021, 01:32 PM   #100
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I am starting to despise the Sabres more each day.

Yeah, I get it, it sucks. Your franchise C wants out and just happens to be injured. Terrible luck and timing. But FFS you can't expect teams to trade you full value for him as if he was 100% healthy.

It's ####ing ridiculous.
And if that is indeed what they want, let him have whatever surgery he wants to have, and start his rehab.

You canít ask for a premium and do everything in your power to submarine the player and the team whoís paying the premium to acquire him.

Just another reason the Sabres are a wretched organization.
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