2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Yrebmi

Sam is young. Sam lost a development year to a shoulder injury. Sam hasn't had great line mates. Sam needs a chance with a different coaching staff. It has all been said - several times. It has indeed gotten old, but no less true.

Remember when so many posters were so insistent in so many threads that we cut bait with Jankowski while there was still value to be had? He at least had the advantage of the minors and less scrutiny.

I eagerly anticipate Sam Bennett to have his break out year and similarly hush folks.

Domi is all of 15 months older.

Bennett did lose that year, but it was a year that would have normally been spent in junior.

I hope you're right and he has some sort of progression this year, I just don't see it there in his game though. His problems are not physical ones, they are mental. As such there is little that more time will change, but maybe a coach can get inside his head and flip a switch.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by dammage79

That's fine. I just see it differently. I will ask though on points 2 and 3. No matter if he signs or not, why wouldn't a player be all in at an NHL development camp? His hockey career is still on the line whether he signs here or not. So that argument still doesn't make a lot of sense.

I just don't understand how 50/50 is a bad thing at this point. And trying to bump up the chance he signs in Calgary based on essentially nothing is even stranger. All I'm saying is it is still a coin flip. Anything more than that is just hopeful enthusiasm, which isn't a bad thing.

I flat out do not know which way Fox goes. Nor do any other of us fans.

What I do know is people want fox, he has trade value and Can be used a nice chip to get what you want.

You brought up your ranked list order of D prospects yesterday and had Fox at the top of Do not trade.

I get it. But I disagree, Kylington and Andersson and Valimaki are equally on top of the do not trade list with fox on the outside.

Entirely disagree.

They are not all equal. Valimaki is the surest thing to be an impact NHLer. Fox has the highest ceiling. Andersson is already there as far as NHL ready and, along with Fox, is a RH shot which is the rarer side.

Kylington is a distant 4th on that list for those reasons as well as him being a LH shot,and a propensity thus far of making the big gaffes in his own end as a pro thus far.

Doubtful Kylington has a whole lot of trade value around the league so any deal for a guy like Hayes has you having to part with someone more desirable to your partner, which is why the Fox name was brought up.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I hope you're right and he has some sort of progression this year, I just don't see it there in his game though. His problems are not physical ones, they are mental. As such there is little that more time will change, but maybe a coach can get inside his head and flip a switch.

Some of his mental problems are merely confidence issues. Sometimes all a young player needs is to get on a bit of an offensive roll and then confidence floods back, he starts playing more instinctually, stops doubting his instincts and everything clicks into place. It's a very fine line with some young offensive players.

Its certainly not too late for Sam. Look at how inept Paul Byron's offence looked for the early part of his career. Look at the age he broke out offensively. Look at how inept Sean Couturier's offence looked for the early part of his career. Look at the age he broke out offensively. Heck look at the age that Nathan McKinnon really broke out as well, he just had a 40 point increase at age 22. Guess what age Bennett is turning this year.

There are endless examples of young, skilled players who lost confidence in their offensive game early in their career and yet regained it and exploded offensively. There's no reason to think Bennett can't be yet another example of that in the next year or two.

[dissentowner]

Watch us trade Fox to the NYR and he becomes Brian Leetch v2.0 for a 40-50 point winger we don't need. No thanks.

[Husky]

Said it before, bennett game reminds me of a mike peca. Not a ppg player but gritty player who should be consistenly a 45-60 point player in his prime.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Yrebmi

Sam is young. Sam lost a development year to a shoulder injury. Sam hasn't had great line mates. Sam needs a chance with a different coaching staff. It has all been said - several times. It has indeed gotten old, but no less true.

Remember when so many posters were so insistent in so many threads that we cut bait with Jankowski while there was still value to be had? He at least had the advantage of the minors and less scrutiny.

I eagerly anticipate Sam Bennett to have his break out year and similarly hush folks.

Lots of people here were also writing Backlund off. I would love to go back read some of those posts; Pretty sure we would see many of the same comments including the word "bust!" Likely many of the same posters. Bennett is still young.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Watch us trade Fox to the NYR and he becomes Brian Leetch v2.0 for a 40-50 point winger we don't need. No thanks.

The Flames don't need a 50 pt winger?

They had 1 last year. MT would have been 2 without his injury.

If there is a single thing the Flames need more than anything...its a scoring winger and particularly one that can play with Gaudreau.

Strange take.

[transplant99]

I get the feeling...and maybe i am just misreading or misunderstanding...that many here want the Flames to come back with almost the same team they had last year.

That shouldnt, and likely isn't going to be happening. And for areally good reason.

The amount of trust people are putting into a coaching change to make players better is astounding to me. These are still the same group of players that couldn't/wouldnt do what was asked of them the last 2 years, so why would that be any different now?

Changes on this club NEED to occur for the betterment of everyone involved IMO.

BT will be swinging for the fences this week is my guess and if he doesn't get what he wants that way, then be prepared for a massive UFA offer going out to someone a week today....an option most agree is not the best way to go about things.

No way Treliving returns the same team (more or less) next season and he has said as much.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Entirely disagree.

They are not all equal. Valimaki is the surest thing to be an impact NHLer. Fox has the highest ceiling. Andersson is already there as far as NHL ready and, along with Fox, is a RH shot which is the rarer side.

Kylington is a distant 4th on that list for those reasons as well as him being a LH shot,and a propensity thus far of making the big gaffes in his own end as a pro thus far.

Doubtful Kylington has a whole lot of trade value around the league so any deal for a guy like Hayes has you having to part with someone more desirable to your partner, which is why the Fox name was brought up.

Again, I get it. People value players differently. I just posted how I see things. And it's not talent that has any player over another its like I said, I see Fox as a 50/50 shot to be a Flame. So that's why he is the easiest to trade.

And Kylington gets a bit of a raw deal on this board. He's done great developing in the AHL as the youngest player or one of the youngest.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by transplant99

The Flames don't need a 50 pt winger?

They had 1 last year. MT would have been 2 without his injury.

If there is a single thing the Flames need more than anything...its a scoring winger and particularly one that can play with Gaudreau.

A scoring winger would be ideal. Don't think we particularly need one to play with Gaudreau though, Ferland was fine there. Our #1 line was fine and produced like a #1 line should. The problem was the lack of a second scoring line. Our checking line was counted on as our second scoring line and our 3rd line basically was another 4th line.

IMO we need a scoring winger that can play with Tkachuk-Jankowski or Tkachuk-Bennett. Then suddenly we have two very dangerous scoring lines and Backlund-Frolik can be a two-way checking line that can also score some.

Or you re-gig the lineup entirely to create two scoring lines. For example
Tkachuk-Monahan-Bennett
Gaudreau-Jankowski-Ferland
Frolik-Backlund-Lazar

The lineup above has no new additions and IMO would be WAY deeper offensively than the way GG created his lines. I happen to think Treliving will add another top 6 forward to create an even deeper lineup than what I prepose above.

But anyways my point was that a winger for Gaudreau is not really what we need. We just need 2 scoring lines and an elite two-way checking line that can score. That can be accomplished a variety of ways and keeping Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland together can be part of solution. That line works great together. I'm fine to see it split up as well but I don't understand anyone's insistence that Gaudreau needs a better winger than Ferland. What we need is another dangerous scoring line that Gaudreau isn't on so that we have a two pronged attack instead of being a 1 line offensive team.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I get the feeling...and maybe i am just misreading or misunderstanding...that many here want the Flames to come back with almost the same team they had last year.

That shouldnt, and likely isn't going to be happening. And for areally good reason.

The amount of trust people are putting into a coaching change to make players better is astounding to me. These are still the same group of players that couldn't/wouldnt do what was asked of them the last 2 years, so why would that be any different now?

Changes on this club NEED to occur for the betterment of everyone involved IMO.

BT will be swinging for the fences this week is my guess and if he doesn't get what he wants that way, then be prepared for a massive UFA offer going out to someone a week today....an option most agree is not the best way to go about things.

No way Treliving returns the same team (more or less) next season and he has said as much.

Agreed. Treliving will be upgrading the forwards in some way.

That said I think some people are underrating just how poorly GG constructed the lineup last season. He basically created 1 scoring line, 1 elite two-way checking line and two 4th lines. By merely juggling the lineup around slightly its easy to create 2 scoring lines, 1 elite two-way checking line and a 4th line even without adding another top 6 forward. See the lines in my post above.

That said I do agree that he will look to add another depth scorer. I think adding the top 6 depth player will be huge. But also juggling the lines and utilizing the current players better will also be huge.

[bubbsy]

I completely agree. Flames don't need another player for the top line. The line stumbled later in the season whuch can be attributed to the Monahan injuries.

The team needs a second line that us a consistent threat to score.

Gaudreau - Monahan
Tkachuk -?

We need to fill that void to build a second pair. Whether it's a C or Rw I'm not sure.

Ideally, whichever it is, the player is a right hand shot

[PlayfulGenius]

Originally Posted by Husky

Said it before, bennett game reminds me of a mike peca. Not a ppg player but gritty player who should be consistenly a 45-60 point player in his prime.

I'd be VERY happy with this! ... for me, that wouldn't be a BUST, even for a 4th overall... a good checking C, that puts up some points, is very valuable come playoff time... and these players tend to outplay their Cap Hit... let's hope you're right!!

[FurnaceFace]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Still 50/50. I don't understand how the time when he signs with the Flames if at all makes any difference. It's either or.

Semantics. You are correct he either signs or doesn’t. The better wording of the question is something like:

“How likely do you think it is he signs with The Flames?” or “What is your confidence level Fox will sit with The Flames?”

I believe this was implied in the original question. In that case, Bingo’s analysis is applicable. He feels, based on his interpretation of what was said by Conroy, Bingo is 90% sure Fox will sign with The Flames or _currently_ has a 90% confidence level he will sign.

Does that help?

[1_Flames_Fan]

I'd like it if Fox became a Charlie McAvoy type player. That would be a big win.

[Ashes]

Hayes from the New York Rangers is the same Hayes who played on a line with Gaudreau and Bill Arnold in College, right? I remember quite a few people (myself included) hoping that he would choose to sign in Calgary as a Free Agent only to end up choosing the Rangers when he finished his college career.

IMO He's a big guy who had great chemistry with Gaudreau on and off the ice as a RW in college, so perhaps Tre would look at him as Top 6 upgrade but on the right side, not as a centre as some are suggesting. left shot or not there are lots of examples of guys who can play their off-wing. I guess I'm just surprised there isn't more excitement about the idea of a potential 50 point winger who could be had (supposedly) for a defensemen.. which happens to be our deepest position.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Flames actually have a great history of signing their college players despite fan paranoia.

Jordan Leopold. Highly touted college prospect. Went back for his fourth year and won the Hobey Baker. We didn't even draft him, acquired him in a trade. And yet he signed with us anyways.

Johnny Gaudreau. Highly touted college prospect. Won the Hobey Baker. Went back for his 3rd year prompting a paranoia outbreak. Some fans were convinced he'd never sign with us. And yet he did.

Mark Jankowski. Slow developing highly touted college prospect. Went back for his fourth year. Some fans were scared he wouldn't sign. Some fans didn't want him signed. We signed him anyway.

Adam Fox. Highly touted college prospect. Going back for his 3rd year prompting another bout of paranoia with fans. Future unknown.

For some reason I'm slightly more scared that Fox would go UFA than I was with Leopold, Gaudreau or Jankowski. But given our record maybe thats just paranoia on my part.

Based on Flames history the only major prospect we couldn't sign who was a threat to go UFA or re-enter the draft was Tom Erixon drafted out of Europe.

It's not that college players often go to UFA, they don't. The Erixon's, Vesey's and Justin Schultz's are the exception, not the rule.

There's a decent chance Fox will sign with us. And if management starts to sniff out that he won't then there's still a window where he could be moved for value.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by dammage79

That's fine. I just see it differently. I will ask though on points 2 and 3. No matter if he signs or not, why wouldn't a player be all in at an NHL development camp? His hockey career is still on the line whether he signs here or not. So that argument still doesn't make a lot of sense.

I just don't understand how 50/50 is a bad thing at this point. And trying to bump up the chance he signs in Calgary based on essentially nothing is even stranger. All I'm saying is it is still a coin flip. Anything more than that is just hopeful enthusiasm, which isn't a bad thing.

I flat out do not know which way Fox goes. Nor do any other of us fans.

What I do know is people want fox, he has trade value and Can be used a nice chip to get what you want.

You brought up your ranked list order of D prospects yesterday and had Fox at the top of Do not trade.

I get it. But I disagree, Kylington and Andersson and Valimaki are equally on top of the do not trade list with fox on the outside.

Saying it’s 50/50 is just as arbitrary though. The fact there are two outcomes doesn’t make it a coin flip. It comes down to the probability of either scenario for which we don’t know anything

[868904]

No to Fox for Hayes.

Only way I trade fox to the Rangers is for Zibanejad.

As for Bennett, you have to give him one more year, his value is low now and it won't change much next year if he has a similar points as this. Might as well hope for a breakout under a new coach. His first 3 pro years mirrors that of Kesler and so does his play. Kesler broke out offensively in jis fourth NHL year and become a dominant second line centre men, that's the hope for Bennett.

[DomeFoam]

I think the dark horse for a huge breakout year could be Jankowski and if not this year, next year could be a guy that makes other people expendable to trade. He showed tremendous poise as a rookie last year taking on additional responsibilities as the year progressed all the while learning how to play centre. Once he continues to hone his goal scoring skills with that beautiful reach I think we will have two VERY dynamic lines with Tkachuk on his wing.

The question mark is and always will be Bennett, but we are afforded the time to wait on him before we pull trigger due to Janko and Tkachuk's development.