Let's talk about Cryptocurrencies

[Fuzz]

Alright, so I'll make a new one. Flexcoin. The fundamental design of the currency can be altered by votes, so if you want to change from PoW to PoS, or add security layers, or whatever, it can all be done on the fly. Then it will always be able to keep up.

[Enoch Root]

Just watched a webinar on Bitcoin...

The primary argument for justifying an ever increasing price, was the common one, being that Bitcoin is a substitution for gold. And the gold market is worth $10T, so Bitcoin has the potential to be worth $10T also.

The problem with that is that Bitcoin won't replace gold, it would join gold, as a store of wealth, meaning it wouldn't just take over gold's value. Just look at silver, which is also a substitute for gold - but that doesn't mean that the total silver market simply became as valuable as gold's. It just doesn't work that way. The argument is based on nothing but envy.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Alright, so I'll make a new one. Flexcoin. The fundamental design of the currency can be altered by votes, so if you want to change from PoW to PoS, or add security layers, or whatever, it can all be done on the fly. Then it will always be able to keep up.

Ok cool. But that doesn't preclude someone else from creating Uberflexcoin, which is better than your Flexcoin in every way. And cheaper to use.

The fundamental flaw with the price always rising is that a rising price will, by definition, attract substitutes.

[Enoch Root]

The reason that gold continues to function as a store of wealth is that it rises in value at a rate that, over long stretches, is roughly equivalent to inflation.

If it skyrocketed in price, its use as a store of wealth would be invalidated, and it would be replaced by something more suited to the task

[dino7c]

BTC being expensive makes it more stable not less. Look at who is buying up BTC right now compared to alt coins. Whales vs. Joe's

Every cycle the ultra rich hold a larger percentage of all Bitcoins. Who do you trust more to Hodl? Joe paycheck to paycheck or Saudi Billionaire?

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Just watched a webinar on Bitcoin...

The primary argument for justifying an ever increasing price, was the common one, being that Bitcoin is a substitution for gold. And the gold market is worth $10T, so Bitcoin has the potential to be worth $10T also.

The problem with that is that Bitcoin won't replace gold, it would join gold, as a store of wealth, meaning it wouldn't just take over gold's value. Just look at silver, which is also a substitute for gold - but that doesn't mean that the total silver market simply became as valuable as gold's. It just doesn't work that way. The argument is based on nothing but envy.

I’m not trying to argue against your point you bring up good ones.
As far as the volatility and and price swings when the first ETF for gold came on the stock market it sky rocketed up in a similar volatile manor.
Once Bitcoin gets to where gold is as far as market cap and maturity it will be way less volatile and you won’t see the price swings as much in either direction.

What I’m reading is it’s already begun but people will start selling off Gold and Silver to buy Bitcoin once the bull run prices start really sky rocketing (this or another cycle) as they will have FOMO (fear of missing out) and can’t resist the exchange for a chance at a perceived lottery ticket and keeping up with the Jones’s.
Time will tell.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1369715629922648065

[bootsnixon]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Alright, so I'll make a new one. Flexcoin. The fundamental design of the currency can be altered by votes, so if you want to change from PoW to PoS, or add security layers, or whatever, it can all be done on the fly. Then it will always be able to keep up.

I believe this is precisely how decentralized coins already operate. Someone proposes a change and all the nodes vote on it. If a consensus is reached ( don't know the % required), then the change is made at a certain mining block. I think this is called a softfork but could be wrong on that. If a consensus is not reached then the developer may still proceed with the change but a hard fork will be required thus creating a new blockchain. Examples of hard forks are Bitcoin Cash and Diamond as well as Ethereum Classic. Through the years, there have also been several changes to both that had consensus and happen unnoticed by us. I believe Ethereum is having one within the next month that will lower gas fees.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this statement as I'm enjoying this discussion and only want to add to it.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by dino7c

BTC being expensive makes it more stable not less. Look at who is buying up BTC right now compared to alt coins. Whales vs. Joe's

Every cycle the ultra rich hold a larger percentage of all Bitcoins. Who do you trust more to Hodl? Joe paycheck to paycheck or Saudi Billionaire?

Being expensive makes it more stable - in the short term, yes. But getting increasingly expensive (and you are proposing it on an exponential level) does the exact opposite. It creates its own headwinds and is ultimately self-defeating.

As for appeals to authority - lol. Global financial markets are the single biggest game there is. It incorporates literally everyone (well, everyone who has any financial assets). 'Joes' as you refer to them, think they are relevant, but are not (even when millions of them band together). 'Whales' can be relevant in the short-term, because others will follow their actions. However, the markets dwarf even the largest whales by magnitudes. And then some. No one - not whales, not even countries, can manipulate financial markets in the long term. Anyone who appeals to authority when it comes to global finance, simply does not understand global finance.

You're going to have to do a lot better than that, to make any kind of case for $1M BTC.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Yoho

I’m not trying to argue against your point you bring up good ones.
As far as the volatility and and price swings when the first ETF for gold came on the stock market it sky rocketed up in a similar volatile manor.
Once Bitcoin gets to where gold is as far as market cap and maturity it will be way less volatile and you won’t see the price swings as much in either direction.

What I’m reading is it’s already begun but people will start selling off Gold and Silver to buy Bitcoin once the bull run prices start really sky rocketing (this or another cycle) as they will have FOMO (fear of missing out) and can’t resist the exchange for a chance at a perceived lottery ticket and keeping up with the Jones’s.
Time will tell.

That is the argument, essentially, in a nutshell.

And in the short-term, it is valid and self-fulfilling. But only for so long. Momentum exists until it does not. And momentum goes both ways.

For continued growth, it needs much more than momentum. It needs to justify its price - at each and every price point. And the challenge with that is that, as the price rises, the viability of substitutes increases.

[karl262]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The problem Bitcoin faces as a store of value (along with there being so many substitutes) is that it is vulnerable to hackers. And as such, Bitcoin will only remain as a store of value until another crypto that is safer, replaces it.



The fundamental problem with individual cryptos, is that they can be replaced by a newer and better crypto.



And while there is a 'stickiness' to the demand for those that are already being used (like Bitcoin), the problem they face is that their own success results in them becoming increasing expensive, which pushes that demand to cheaper (and better) replacements

How is bitcoin vulnerable to hackers? Are you referring to "not your keys, not your crypto "?

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Being expensive makes it more stable - in the short term, yes. But getting increasingly expensive (and you are proposing it on an exponential level) does the exact opposite. It creates its own headwinds and is ultimately self-defeating.

As for appeals to authority - lol. Global financial markets are the single biggest game there is. It incorporates literally everyone (well, everyone who has any financial assets). 'Joes' as you refer to them, think they are relevant, but are not (even when millions of them band together). 'Whales' can be relevant in the short-term, because others will follow their actions. However, the markets dwarf even the largest whales by magnitudes. And then some. No one - not whales, not even countries, can manipulate financial markets in the long term. Anyone who appeals to authority when it comes to global finance, simply does not understand global finance.

You're going to have to do a lot better than that, to make any kind of case for $1M BTC.

I am proposing a 10x over 7+ years with a finite supply that will be reached shortly after that time...nothing crazy

I mean I posted it would be over 20k by the end the year last april and was lol'd for "not understanding financial blah blah blah" 70k right now by the way

Smarter money than you or I is buying billions of dollars in Bitcoin right now. Why? none of them grasp the financial markets like you?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by karl262

How is bitcoin vulnerable to hackers? Are you referring to "not your keys, not your crypto "?

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

my fear would be that their seems to be a vast amount of shady theft going on in the places you can deposit your bitcoin but if you have it in a 'wallet' you keep at home you can obviously lose it, forget the password or, as in the end it is a hard drive, I assume it could just break and you have no way to recover your funds.

The very point of all crypto if I understand right, and the hint is in the name, its all secret, is that no government or bank is in control but it also means you have no recourse if anything goes wrong.

[dino7c]

You do hear stories of people getting scammed out of their BTC but really people get bilked out of billions of dollars in fiat ever day too.

If you aren't a moron and do a little research its very safe. If a hardware wallet fails you can still access your crypto with the 24 word recovery phrase. The big exchanges are "safe" but I wouldn't leave hundreds of thousands of dollars in them now.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by dino7c

You do hear stories of people getting scammed out of their BTC but really people get bilked out of billions of dollars in fiat ever day too.

If you aren't a moron and do a little research its very safe. If a hardware wallet fails you can still access your crypto with the 24 word recovery phrase. The big exchanges are "safe" but I wouldn't leave hundreds of thousands of dollars in them now.

does the recovery phrase exist 'within' bitcoin or the wallet's manufacturer?

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I am proposing a 10x over 7+ years with a finite supply that will be reached shortly after that time...nothing crazy

I mean I posted it would be over 20k by the end the year last april and was lol'd for "not understanding financial blah blah blah" 70k right now by the way

Smarter money than you or I is buying billions of dollars in Bitcoin right now. Why? none of them grasp the financial markets like you?

Perhaps you should sponsor an official crypto sub forum.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

does the recovery phrase exist 'within' bitcoin or the wallet's manufacturer?

"within" Bitcoin

you can access the funds without the hardware wallet should you lose it, it breaks, ect.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I am proposing a 10x over 7+ years with a finite supply that will be reached shortly after that time...nothing crazy

I mean I posted it would be over 20k by the end the year last april and was lol'd for "not understanding financial blah blah blah" 70k right now by the way

Smarter money than you or I is buying billions of dollars in Bitcoin right now. Why? none of them grasp the financial markets like you?

'Buying right now', and calling for a 10 bagger are two different things.

But you keep on keeping on with solid arguments like the bolded.

It is never a good idea to get emotionally attached to investment vehicles.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

'Buying right now', and calling for a 10 bagger are two different things.

But you keep on keeping on with solid arguments like the bolded.

It is never a good idea to get emotionally attached to investment vehicles.

So what is your prediction exactly?

this year?
10 years?

lets hear it...easy to say this won't happen and that won't happen. If I told you 70k a year ago you would have given me the same financial lecture. Seven years is pretty hard to call...100k this year though seems like a slam dunk.

Do you even own crypto? You tell me not to get emotional but have posted six times on this page.

[Canadianman]

I'm all for having a debate/discussion on the merits of cryptocurrency, but it might be worthwhile to educate yourself on blockchain, cryptocurrencies and bitcoin specifically before arguing that it is worthless.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Canadianman

I'm all for having a debate/discussion on the merits of cryptocurrency, but it might be worthwhile to educate yourself on blockchain, cryptocurrencies and bitcoin specifically before arguing that it is worthless.

As someone who honestly wants to know more, I find it very hard to find good resources for this.

Every video or article I find are clearly coming from biased sources that have skin in the game to see crypto values rise and seem like they're trying to sell me.

Any good links that give a more technical explanation of things without the fanclub vibes?