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Old 02-02-2016, 11:12 AM   #1241
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Along the 'let them freeze in the dark' philosophy, TransCanada should submit with Energy East some modifications to existing pipeline infrastructure that snakes through Quebec. That way, in order to reject Energy East, quebec would have to reject their existing pipeline infrastructure. Make them actually choose between freezing in the dark and letting an underground pipe through.
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Old 02-02-2016, 11:13 AM   #1242
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So I read an interesting conspiracy theory the other day. Not sure if anyone here can validate it or discount it. It went like this. Paul Martin owned a shipping company CSL (Canada Steamship Lines), when he became PM he sold his interest to his sons. That shipping line current ships a large amount of the foreign oil to the Irving refinery.

If Energy East gets built that would displace the foreign oil, and hurt Martin's sons financially (and really Martin as well). The MTL mayor playing the environmental card was appointed to a Federal Cabinet position in the Martin government. Could this be a friend helping a friend by standing in the way of a national project?

I thought it was interesting to read, because if true shows black and white how fata'd this country has become when a national interest is being stopped for one small groups benefit.
I think that there were lots of questions around why CSL was awarded $161 million in contracts while Martin was either in government or in opposition.

As well he took a bath on the whole flagging of the company so they didn't pay a lot of Canadian taxes.
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Old 02-02-2016, 11:16 AM   #1243
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I work next to the NEB building, there was an anti-pipeline protest out front this morning. About 10 people.
It'd be interesting to go and ask them questions about what they're protesting and if they understand the differences between shipping via pipeline and driving trucks full of Oil through the provinces.

I dislike Levant because he's way over the top but I did laugh when he'd go to protests and ask questions and the answers that he got showed a lot of clueless protestors that went from protest to protest not bothering to know what they were there for.

When he wasn't being called a stinking Jew conspirator.
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Old 02-02-2016, 12:00 PM   #1244
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It'd be interesting to go and ask them questions about what they're protesting and if they understand the differences between shipping via pipeline and driving trucks full of Oil through the provinces.

I dislike Levant because he's way over the top but I did laugh when he'd go to protests and ask questions and the answers that he got showed a lot of clueless protestors that went from protest to protest not bothering to know what they were there for.

When he wasn't being called a stinking Jew conspirator.
I bet the protesters have no clue about global carbon emissions and where the real problem is.
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Old 02-02-2016, 12:22 PM   #1245
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There is a way around. G Seven Generations is working on a plan to build a rail line from Fort Mac to a terminal on the Alyeska pipeline to feed terminals in Valdez. Alaska oil is in a huge decline and the facilities would love a new source.

This rail line would be capable of carrying 1.5mmbbl/day and would be half owned by first nation groups between here and Alaska. The plan already had their support.

Choo choo.
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Old 02-02-2016, 12:54 PM   #1246
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So I read an interesting conspiracy theory the other day. Not sure if anyone here can validate it or discount it. It went like this. Paul Martin owned a shipping company CSL (Canada Steamship Lines), when he became PM he sold his interest to his sons. That shipping line current ships a large amount of the foreign oil to the Irving refinery.

If Energy East gets built that would displace the foreign oil, and hurt Martin's sons financially (and really Martin as well). The MTL mayor playing the environmental card was appointed to a Federal Cabinet position in the Martin government. Could this be a friend helping a friend by standing in the way of a national project?

I thought it was interesting to read, because if true shows black and white how fata'd this country has become when a national interest is being stopped for one small groups benefit.
Aren't CSL's ships just lakers? I'm not sure how any of his boats would supply Irving with oil. I would think those would be of the typical super large ocean going crude tankers, which I didn't think Martin had any of.
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Old 02-02-2016, 12:54 PM   #1247
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There is a way around. G Seven Generations is working on a plan to build a rail line from Fort Mac to a terminal on the Alyeska pipeline to feed terminals in Valdez. Alaska oil is in a huge decline and the facilities would love a new source.

This rail line would be capable of carrying 1.5mmbbl/day and would be half owned by first nation groups between here and Alaska. The plan already had their support.

Choo choo.
Yup and the protestors won't protest it because you know, its not a pipeline man.
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Old 02-02-2016, 12:56 PM   #1248
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An underdiscussed source of potential anti-pipeline funding is the railroads. It just makes too much sense.
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Old 02-02-2016, 01:03 PM   #1249
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Aren't CSL's ships just lakers? I'm not sure how any of his boats would supply Irving with oil. I would think those would be of the typical super large ocean going crude tankers, which I didn't think Martin had any of.
Yes, I wasn't confirming or denying. Just that I had heard it and wanted to know if anyone had a way to justify or repute it. Could be non-sense but it was bugging me that it could be true so wanted to see what people here thought. Shipping oil isn't an area I have a lot of knowledge in.
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Old 02-02-2016, 01:10 PM   #1250
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An underdiscussed source of potential anti-pipeline funding is the railroads. It just makes too much sense.

You mean Warren Buffet's Burlington Northern Santa railway and the fact that he is a huge Obama financial backer?
There's no doubt this is the single biggest single reason Keystone was not approved.
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Old 02-02-2016, 01:22 PM   #1251
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An underdiscussed source of potential anti-pipeline funding is the railroads. It just makes too much sense.
Nope. Lots of companies have significant rail investments as contingency.
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Old 02-02-2016, 01:39 PM   #1252
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You mean Warren Buffet's Burlington Northern Santa railway and the fact that he is a huge Obama financial backer?
There's no doubt this is the single biggest single reason Keystone was not approved.
Buffett is in favour of Keystone. He's said it several times.
http://business.financialpost.com/ne..._lsa=6b9c-1d99
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Old 02-02-2016, 03:35 PM   #1253
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Nope. Lots of companies have significant rail investments as contingency.
Right. Which is why railroads have a massive reason to not want any pipelines built. But we all get that. It's so obvious that it almost didn't require mentioning...
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Old 02-02-2016, 03:39 PM   #1254
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No, like KMC owns a bunch of CN. They want to move their product no matter what, right.
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Old 02-02-2016, 03:42 PM   #1255
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Wait, you're saying that the pipelines themselves have hedged their bets by buying stakes in railroads? Interesting.
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Old 02-02-2016, 03:57 PM   #1256
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Yes, I am saying that.
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Old 02-02-2016, 04:04 PM   #1257
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^ Do you have proof of this or is that a hunch? I don't think it is true but I haven't done any research on the subject, so I haven't seen confirmation one way or another.
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Old 02-02-2016, 04:05 PM   #1258
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You mean Warren Buffet's Burlington Northern Santa railway and the fact that he is a huge Obama financial backer?
There's no doubt this is the single biggest single reason Keystone was not approved.
And Burlington wouldn't be affected by the pipeline anyways. This is the single biggest tin foil conspiracy leading people to believe strange things.
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Old 02-02-2016, 04:12 PM   #1259
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Yes, I am saying that.
They work closely with CNR on terminals etc which I'm assuming you're referring to? Not really "buying stakes in railroads".
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Old 02-02-2016, 04:20 PM   #1260
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They work closely with CNR on terminals etc which I'm assuming you're referring to? Not really "buying stakes in railroads".
I was under the impression, at least in 2012, that KMC had some divestments in CNR.
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