A history lesson, hopefully some of you will learn from this (posts from 2016)
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Originally Posted by peter12
Exactly. As I have said, Tesla's cars don't scale. Every car sold loses $20,000 for the company.
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter12
The cost of the car is subsidized through the sale of green energy credits by $20,000. That is public knowledge now. I'm not sure why this is so hard for you to understand.
But you are sure that they can manage to build the rest of the car for $24,000, notwithstanding all of the problems highlighted above. You must be killing it on the stock market.
Not picking on peter12 his posts are well thought out but also good example of short term thinking. Tesla now has the highest margins of any auto maker and we all know what the stock has done since then.
Going back to 2015-2016 there are a bunch of posts along the same lines, Tesla can't make money, can't survive without credits, GM sells millions of cars/year Tesla is barely a blip. The same thing is happening again, Tesla will never solve FSD it costs too much rabid fanboys etc. etc.
A history lesson, hopefully some of you will learn from this (posts from 2016)
Not picking on peter12 his posts are well thought out but also good example of short term thinking. Tesla now has the highest margins of any auto maker and we all know what the stock has done since then.
Going back to 2015-2016 there are a bunch of posts along the same lines, Tesla can't make money, can't survive without credits, GM sells millions of cars/year Tesla is barely a blip. The same thing is happening again, Tesla will never solve FSD it costs too much rabid fanboys etc. etc.
Will the skeptics learn anything?
There's a difference between decided to buy a car from them and deciding to buy their stock. Unless you have invested in it, cheering on a company is a very weird move.
A history lesson, hopefully some of you will learn from this (posts from 2016)
Not picking on peter12 his posts are well thought out but also good example of short term thinking. Tesla now has the highest margins of any auto maker and we all know what the stock has done since then.
Going back to 2015-2016 there are a bunch of posts along the same lines, Tesla can't make money, can't survive without credits, GM sells millions of cars/year Tesla is barely a blip. The same thing is happening again, Tesla will never solve FSD it costs too much rabid fanboys etc. etc.
Will the skeptics learn anything?
In fairness to the "skeptics" and maybe so you tone down this "told you so" nonsense that I imagine everyone finds irritating, even Elon recognized it was close.
Quote:
On Tuesday, Tesla CEO Elon Musk tweeted that his electric car company had been about a month away from bankruptcy in recent years when it was still figuring out how to mass produce the Model 3 electric sedan.
In the middle of a discussion about Tesla’s fundraising history, a follower asked, “How close was Tesla from bankruptcy when bringing the Model 3 to mass production?”
Musk replied: “Closest we got was about a month. The Model 3 ramp was extreme stress & pain for a long time — from mid-2017 to mid-2019. Production & logistics hell.”
As for FSD, it's still looking to have a long way to go. I don't think the camera approach is the correct one, but we will see.
You can skip to his review at 12:00. He doesn't have a load of confidence in it. "I still trust myself in my driving skills vs FSD" and he admits he's a horrible driver. "It will take years to solve".
I also saw one where the guy was driving on a snow covered gravel road and his comment was "last year I had to take over 11 times on this section of road and this year it was only 5, so an improvement." It really wanted to drive into the ditch sometimes lol.
I mean in principle cameras should be sufficient, we can drive with just our eyes. Just a matter of having the right software.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
I also saw one where the guy was driving on a snow covered gravel road and his comment was "last year I had to take over 11 times on this section of road and this year it was only 5, so an improvement." It really wanted to drive into the ditch sometimes lol.
I mean in principle cameras should be sufficient, we can drive with just our eyes. Just a matter of having the right software.
We can drive with just our eyes, but we are also backed by a human brain. I think until we have AI that is similar in functioning to a human brain, cameras are not enough. You need to compensate by having better than human sensing.
Mercedes I think is the first out with a level 3 system, and they use lidar(probably along with many other sensors)
Yeah makes sense to use more senses to compensate. I think eventually they'll get there with just vision even without human level AI, but having more sensors may make it sooner/easier, not to mention that more sensors could make it better than vision only could.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
In fairness to the "skeptics" and maybe so you tone down this "told you so" nonsense that I imagine everyone finds irritating,
It's about recognizing why people got it wrong and learning from it. Doesn't look like you can do that.
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So maybe tone it down a bit? Either outcome could have been reality.
Of course, but once Tesla moved past the stage where they almost went under that is where the true growth happened. And that is where smart investors started saying this is a company that is going to grow exponentially but instead of recognizing that most people couldn't stop with the FUD. It's still happening in this thread.
On FSD and various sensors and vision, Tesla tried sensor fusion they concluded trying to code the system to know which sensor to trust in any given situation was not viable so they dumped that strategy and went all in on vision. Is that the right call? Time will tell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by photon
Yeah makes sense to use more senses to compensate. I think eventually they'll get there with just vision even without human level AI, but having more sensors may make it sooner/easier, not to mention that more sensors could make it better than vision only could.
It's about recognizing why people got it wrong and learning from it. Doesn't look like you can do that.
Of course, but once Tesla moved past the stage where they almost went under that is where the true growth happened. And that is where smart investors started saying this is a company that is going to grow exponentially but instead of recognizing that most people couldn't stop with the FUD. It's still happening in this thread.
On FSD and various sensors and vision, Tesla tried sensor fusion they concluded trying to code the system to know which sensor to trust in any given situation was not viable so they dumped that strategy and went all in on vision. Is that the right call? Time will tell.
More sensors make it much much harder.
How does that makes sense? Too many sensors?
More likely: they save face because they can’t, like lots of other tech companies, get their hands on parts. So either a) sell no cars, b) strip parts and sell card and sell this story.
What happens when the sensors don't agree. Which is correct? I'm pretty sure you think RADAR and LIDAR give this perfect, noise free error free image just because.
Quote:
More likely: they save face because they can’t, like lots of other tech companies, get their hands on parts. So either a) sell no cars, b) strip parts and sell card and sell this story.
As for FSD, it's still looking to have a long way to go. I don't think the camera approach is the correct one, but we will see.
You can skip to his review at 12:00. He doesn't have a load of confidence in it. "I still trust myself in my driving skills vs FSD" and he admits he's a horrible driver. "It will take years to solve".
Elon needs to put the radar sensors back. Camera only isn't enough.
The Following User Says Thank You to Erick Estrada For This Useful Post:
Gillmore put a few dozen miles on the Model 3 last month before contacting Tesla about "a grinding noise" coming from the driver-side rear wheel while driving. The Tesla Dealership on Florida Avenue in Tampa had no service appointments for inspection. They even told her the "noise was normal."
Quote:
She was fed up with Tesla's terrible service and took the Model 3 to an independent shop for inspection. Mechanics discovered "there wasn't an inside brake pad installed at the factory," she said, adding the "backside of the rotor and that side of the caliper are destroyed." At the time, the car only had 112 miles on it.
A history lesson, hopefully some of you will learn from this (posts from 2016)
Not picking on peter12 his posts are well thought out but also good example of short term thinking. Tesla now has the highest margins of any auto maker and we all know what the stock has done since then.
Going back to 2015-2016 there are a bunch of posts along the same lines, Tesla can't make money, can't survive without credits, GM sells millions of cars/year Tesla is barely a blip. The same thing is happening again, Tesla will never solve FSD it costs too much rabid fanboys etc. etc.
Will the skeptics learn anything?
I'm a big Tesla fan. I laugh at the skeptics. No trust in the brain power behind Tesla to figure it out.
FSD is also complete fraud at this point. Tesla should obviously be refunding them.
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