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Old 09-20-2017, 10:56 AM   #1
Gizmo
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Default Is this the first year in recent memory where we can actually afford a few injuries?

Let me state my disclaimer right off the bat: I am loving the way our opening night roster is shaping up and in no way want to see a Flame go down due to injury. Like, ever. That being said, humour me for a moment or two as I breach into unthinkable territory.

Three seasons ago this team was dealt some misfortune with multiple injuries coming right out of the gate, and we as fans were pleasantly surprised with at least three prospects (Jooris, Granlund, Byron) who had great camps and were able to keep the ship afloat while our regulars (Backlund, Colborne, Jones) eased their way back. Blueline issues also crept up on us as the season came to a close.

I’ve been watching this team for 20 years and at no point have I seen the roster depth at every position like we are currently starting to show. Yes it was stated for justification during the Hamonic trade, and the intriguing names that are still floating around camp aren’t news to anyone around here. However, we always view our prospects (with the exception of Jankowksi this pre-season) as pieces that will either be ready this year, next year, or the next. It isn’t always that easy though. Sometimes teams are forced to get a look at their prized prospects on the big stage far sooner than they expect. Whether that be injury to veterans, or simple intrigue.

Examples of successful stories in recent years at the top of my head:

Anaheim with Brandon Montour and Shea Theodore. Similar thing could be said for when Andersen and Gibson slowly eased into Hiller’s starting role.

Boston last year in playoffs with Charlie McAvoy (replaced an injured Brandon Carlo)

Pittsburgh in the 15/16 season and playoffs with Bryan Rust


I am far more optimistic about our prospect pool than I was three seasons ago (particularly on the back end and in the goal crease), and I have confidence that we have as many as 8 guys that could effectively step into a role this season if called upon.

Poirier
Foo
Mangiapane
Hathaway
F. Hamilton
Shinkaruk
Klimchuk*
Dube*

Andersson
Kulak
Kylington*
Valmaki*
Wotherspoon*

Gillies
Rittich

Clearly not all at once, but just knowing we have that kind of a list ready to step into roles is something to be celebrated. This doesn’t even touch on guys like Bennett, Jankowski or Lazar getting bumped up in the lineup in the case of anybody in the top 6 going down. I’d much prefer this method over a team like, say, the Oilers plugging Puljujarvi into a top 6 spot to start the season when they aren’t 100% sure he’s even ready.

Sure we have one or two veteran contracts coming off the books at season’s end, which will undoubtedly make for fun competition at camp next year, but who on this list do you think could step into a roster spot and keep it if someone were to go on LTIR this season?
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Old 09-20-2017, 11:02 AM   #2
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Can't even afford to broadcast our own pre-season games, how can we possibly afford injuries?



To address the OP though: Clearly we have the depth to manage some injuries if they happen. BUT, if our top players go down, this team is in trouble. I don't think we have the high end talent to sustain injuries to guys like Gaudreau, Monahan, Hamilton etc. We need those players to be successful. Without them, the team is likely treading water.
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Old 09-20-2017, 11:11 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Gizmo View Post
Let me state my disclaimer right off the bat: I am loving the way our opening night roster is shaping up and in no way want to see a Flame go down due to injury. Like, ever. That being said, humour me for a moment or two as I breach into unthinkable territory.
Way to jinx things! Tkachuk has a hip injury and won't play tonight. As per Rotoworld:

Matthew Tkachuk (hip) won't play Wednesday night.
Tkachuk also won't be available to practice. He was removed from Sunday's session for precautionary reasons because of a hip problem. Tkachuk still has time to recover before the start of the season, but this could become worrisome if the issue continues to linger.
Source: Pat Steinberg on Twitter
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Old 09-20-2017, 11:12 AM   #4
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That was pretty much the reason why we traded for Hamonic. And we have prospects who are NHL ready and can be slotted in if someone gets injured.
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Old 09-20-2017, 11:14 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by burnitdown View Post
Way to jinx things! Tkachuk has a hip injury and won't play tonight. As per Rotoworld:

Matthew Tkachuk (hip) won't play Wednesday night.
Tkachuk also won't be available to practice. He was removed from Sunday's session for precautionary reasons because of a hip problem. Tkachuk still has time to recover before the start of the season, but this could become worrisome if the issue continues to linger.
Source: Pat Steinberg on Twitter
Haha.. It was the inspiration behind the thread believe it or not. Hope he's fine. Need him stirring the pot.
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Old 09-20-2017, 11:44 AM   #6
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Agree with the title, no need for the explanation. If we lost Gaudreau, Backlund, and Smith I don't think they'd be so easy to fill in but we do have plenty of bottom 9 depth and a few D men that could serviceably fill in bottom 4.
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Old 09-20-2017, 11:44 AM   #7
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To be honest, a few 5-10 game injuries might even be a blessing in disguise. When you've got no choice but to sink or swim with who you've got, it gives the healthy players a chance to work through some struggles and come out the other side better and more confident. Look at Monahan's sophomore year. When Stajan, Backlund, and Colborne were all injured, we had no choice but to lean on him in a defensive role, and his defensive game grew massively.

If Tkachuk misses some time, for example, it's not crazy to think someone like Mangiapane, Klimchuk, or Dube could step in and have a few strong games. When Tkachuk comes back, now we've got more depth than we did a few weeks earlier.

I'm confident we can weather a few injuries. We've been able to win games in the past with a mediocre forward group by leaning on a single D pairing and one or two lines that can drive play. If we have a rash of injuries, we've got enough good players that the healthy ones should be able to do the same thing. Plus, Gulutzan's mentality of spreading the ice time evenly should keep our key players fairly fresh, so if we had Giordano injured, Brodie should be able to handle a few weeks of 30 minutes per night. Or if Backlund goes down, Monahan, Stajan, and Bennett can pick up the slack.
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Old 09-20-2017, 11:56 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmo View Post
Let me state my disclaimer right off the bat: I am loving the way our opening night roster is shaping up and in no way want to see a Flame go down due to injury. Like, ever. That being said, humour me for a moment or two as I breach into unthinkable territory.

Three seasons ago this team was dealt some misfortune with multiple injuries coming right out of the gate, and we as fans were pleasantly surprised with at least three prospects (Jooris, Granlund, Byron) who had great camps and were able to keep the ship afloat while our regulars (Backlund, Colborne, Jones) eased their way back. Blueline issues also crept up on us as the season came to a close.

I’ve been watching this team for 20 years and at no point have I seen the roster depth at every position like we are currently starting to show. Yes it was stated for justification during the Hamonic trade, and the intriguing names that are still floating around camp aren’t news to anyone around here. However, we always view our prospects (with the exception of Jankowksi this pre-season) as pieces that will either be ready this year, next year, or the next. It isn’t always that easy though. Sometimes teams are forced to get a look at their prized prospects on the big stage far sooner than they expect. Whether that be injury to veterans, or simple intrigue.

Examples of successful stories in recent years at the top of my head:

Anaheim with Brandon Montour and Shea Theodore. Similar thing could be said for when Andersen and Gibson slowly eased into Hiller’s starting role.

Boston last year in playoffs with Charlie McAvoy (replaced an injured Brandon Carlo)

Pittsburgh in the 15/16 season and playoffs with Bryan Rust


I am far more optimistic about our prospect pool than I was three seasons ago (particularly on the back end and in the goal crease), and I have confidence that we have as many as 8 guys that could effectively step into a role this season if called upon.

Poirier
Foo
Mangiapane
Hathaway
F. Hamilton
Shinkaruk
Klimchuk*
Dube*

Andersson
Kulak
Kylington*
Valmaki*
Wotherspoon*

Gillies
Rittich

Clearly not all at once, but just knowing we have that kind of a list ready to step into roles is something to be celebrated. This doesn’t even touch on guys like Bennett, Jankowski or Lazar getting bumped up in the lineup in the case of anybody in the top 6 going down. I’d much prefer this method over a team like, say, the Oilers plugging Puljujarvi into a top 6 spot to start the season when they aren’t 100% sure he’s even ready.

Sure we have one or two veteran contracts coming off the books at season’s end, which will undoubtedly make for fun competition at camp next year, but who on this list do you think could step into a roster spot and keep it if someone were to go on LTIR this season?
In your forward list which ones would be worth a 4th round pick or better to another team at the trading deadline?

Flames gave up a 2nd last year for Lazar because he was an upgrade on all the guys that were in Stockton (including Jankowski)

Valamaki, Anderssen and Kylington have value as prospects as they are all starting the first year of their ELC ... I don't thinks that another team would trade their 1st (for Valamaki) or a 2nd for Anderssen / Kylington to have them in their 5/6 spots for a playoff run.

If the Defensemen on the list were at the stage where they could fill in as a 4/5 then the Flames would not have signed Stone.

All the d-men in the organization were ranked behind Bartkowski who was a UFA playing under a PTO in the AHL.

The Flames were making a playoff run/push last year and went outside the organization with most of these guys available.... which ones have made a significant improvement on where they were last year?

There is a reason that this board seems to support spending the last bit of cap space on Iginla or Jagr.

Same as most teams the Flames run into trouble if any of their top-6 forwards or 2 of their top-5 D get hurt.

Goalies are goalies Rittich / Gillies might be better than Smith and Lack
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Old 09-20-2017, 11:59 AM   #9
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...this thread is going to anger the hockey gods....
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Old 09-20-2017, 12:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardodw View Post
In your forward list which ones would be worth a 4th round pick or better to another team at the trading deadline?
I don't see how this is relevant.

Quote:
Flames gave up a 2nd last year for Lazar because he was an upgrade on all the guys that were in Stockton (including Jankowski)
This is false.

Quote:
Valamaki, Anderssen and Kylington have value as prospects as they are all starting the first year of their ELC ... I don't thinks that another team would trade their 1st (for Valamaki) or a 2nd for Anderssen / Kylington to have them in their 5/6 spots for a playoff run.
I also don't see how this is relevant.

Quote:
If the Defensemen on the list were at the stage where they could fill in as a 4/5 then the Flames would not have signed Stone.
This is also not true.

Quote:
All the d-men in the organization were ranked behind Bartkowski who was a UFA playing under a PTO in the AHL.
This is laughable.

Quote:
The Flames were making a playoff run/push last year and went outside the organization with most of these guys available.... which ones have made a significant improvement on where they were last year?
Kulak, Andersson, Kyllington and even Wotherspoon have so far looked better in camp than they did last year.

Quote:
There is a reason that this board seems to support spending the last bit of cap space on Iginla or Jagr.
Because a team can always improve and depth is a commodity that never diminishes in value.

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Same as most teams the Flames run into trouble if any of their top-6 forwards or 2 of their top-5 D get hurt.
Yes.

Quote:
Goalies are goalies Rittich / Gillies might be better than Smith and Lack
This is absurd.
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Old 09-20-2017, 12:19 PM   #11
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Ricardo polluting yet another thread with his pure nonsense
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Old 09-20-2017, 12:22 PM   #12
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I couldn't make that many ridiculous statements in one post if I tried.
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Old 09-20-2017, 12:39 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by ricardodw View Post
In your forward list which ones would be worth a 4th round pick or better to another team at the trading deadline?

Flames gave up a 2nd last year for Lazar because he was an upgrade on all the guys that were in Stockton (including Jankowski)

Valamaki, Anderssen and Kylington have value as prospects as they are all starting the first year of their ELC ... I don't thinks that another team would trade their 1st (for Valamaki) or a 2nd for Anderssen / Kylington to have them in their 5/6 spots for a playoff run.

If the Defensemen on the list were at the stage where they could fill in as a 4/5 then the Flames would not have signed Stone.

All the d-men in the organization were ranked behind Bartkowski who was a UFA playing under a PTO in the AHL.

The Flames were making a playoff run/push last year and went outside the organization with most of these guys available.... which ones have made a significant improvement on where they were last year?

There is a reason that this board seems to support spending the last bit of cap space on Iginla or Jagr.

Same as most teams the Flames run into trouble if any of their top-6 forwards or 2 of their top-5 D get hurt.

Goalies are goalies Rittich / Gillies might be better than Smith and Lack
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Old 09-20-2017, 12:58 PM   #14
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...this thread is going to anger the hockey gods....
Peoira Rivermen part deux
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Old 09-20-2017, 01:05 PM   #15
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no, you can never afford injuries, regardless of depth. The player that gets injured is almost always better than the depth guy that takes his place.
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Old 09-20-2017, 05:27 PM   #16
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no, you can never afford injuries, regardless of depth. The player that gets injured is almost always better than the depth guy that takes his place.
The original player being better than the replacement was not the point I was making. The examples I used in the OP were all players that were forced into a role that they normally wouldn't have been put in had the original roster player remained healthy. Yet they performed well enough to keep their roster spot later on; whether that was by being moved to another team or leapfrogging another on the depth chart.

Injuries happen every season. Ignore my thread title and consider the final question in the OP. Both teams in the finals last year needed to dig into their AHL cupboard by the end of the playoffs. Hypotheticals are always fun and this is no different.
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Old 09-20-2017, 05:35 PM   #17
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no, you can never afford injuries, regardless of depth. The player that gets injured is almost always better than the depth guy that takes his place.
Thanks Captain Obvious!
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Old 09-20-2017, 05:45 PM   #18
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The Flames can't afford injuries to anyone who matters.

They can weather injuries to anyone on the 4th line or 3rd pairing.

A blessing in disguise might be a goaltending injury. An injury to Smith allows them to hand the ball to Jon Gillies for an extended audition; I can't imagine they want to run Eddie Lack out there more than 20 games.
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Old 09-20-2017, 05:57 PM   #19
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Man i really hope this thread is not bumped any time during the season...
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Old 09-20-2017, 06:12 PM   #20
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...this thread is going to anger the hockey gods....
There are no hockey gods.

That question was settled when Edmonton got McDavid.
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