Minneapolis PD Suffocate Unarmed Black Man Who Later Dies in Hospital

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

No in fact I was very clear I wasn't speaking for the mod group.
I don't set moderation policy, certainly not alone.

oh?

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

You view them as "getting worse".
My view is that some of these discussions need to happen in very real and raw ways.
I don't think sending out a couple infractions from this thread would have actually solved anything.

So, which is it? Not trying to be a dick here. Seriously.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

It does appear that Jiri, in an attempt to bend the knee and admit his white fragility, is willing to let this thread/forum become an unreadable thunderdome

If you dislike it that much no one is forcing you to participate. Btw coming in hot with a snarky take about “bending the knee and admit his white fragility” isn’t going to help your cause the way you think it might.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

If you dislike it that much no one is forcing you to participate. Btw coming in hot with a snarky take about “bending the knee and admit his white fragility” isn’t going to help your cause the way you think it might.

Probably not but I'm quite sure I don't care anymore. My snarky comment seems pretty tame compared to the hysterical profanity happening in this thread, and accusations of racism and being an ####### and you know it.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

oh?



So, which is it? Not trying to be a dick here. Seriously.

Neither of my statements was a change in forum rule or policy.
If the rules actually change - we'll be very clear and let you know.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

It does appear that Jiri, in an attempt to bend the knee and admit his white fragility, is willing to let this thread/forum become an unreadable thunderdome

Projection much? You're the reason this became an unreadable thunderdome. Spouting off stupid takes without knowing all the facts is what you do best, and then you get all pissy when someone calls you out on your dogwhistling? What a snowflake

[SportsJunky]

You're the reason this became an unreadable thunderdome.

^This.

Own your ####, folks.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Probably not but I'm quite sure I don't care anymore.

Did you before? You don't seem to really think about the implications of your posts before you make them. Like, perfect example:

Originally Posted by White Out 403

It does appear that Jiri, in an attempt to bend the knee and admit his white fragility, is willing to let this thread/forum become an unreadable thunderdome

I understand what you mean about white fragility simply because Jiri explicitly used that term. But what were you referring to when you said "bend the knee"? Like... bend the knee to who, exactly? Because, holy ####, do you know what it sounds like you're saying there?

It really is a fair criticism that (in addition to a lot of "hot takes" that require walking back later on) you do seem to say a lot of things that are either racially insensitive or can easily be read as overtly racist by someone who's motivated to do so, especially in the context of an emotionally charged discussion. And as much as I objected to the way Crown Royal responded, and the way he's continued to behave, I do have to say that isn't like his reaction just fell out of the sky. At some point, if you keep making these mistakes, you have to take some responsibility for them. And you can plausibly say, "well, I didn't mean that, I just didn't think about the connotations before I posted"... well, make at least a modicum of effort and maybe this wouldn't keep happening to you.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Did you before? You don't seem to really think about the implications of your posts before you make them. Like, I understand what you mean about white fragility simply because Jiri explicitly used that term. But what were you referring to when you said "bend the knee"? Like... bend the knee to who, exactly? Because, holy ####, do you know what it sounds like you're saying there?

It really is a fair criticism that (in addition to a lot of "hot takes" that require walking back later on) you do seem to say a lot of things that are either racially insensitive or can easily be read as overtly racist by someone who's motivated to do so, especially in the context of an emotionally charged discussion. And as much as I objected to the way Crown Royal responded, and the way he's continued to behave, I do have to say that isn't like his reaction just fell out of the sky. At some point, if you keep making these mistakes, you have to take some responsibility for them. And you can plausibly say, "well, I didn't mean that, I just didn't think about the connotations before I posted"... well, make at least a modicum of effort and maybe this wouldn't keep happening to you.

The bend the knee thing is a reference to people literally getting on a knee to stop protestors from screaming at them. Or like the lady who was eating at the DC restaurant who had a bunch of white people screaming at her to raise her first.

As for the rest? Agree to disgaree. I don't feel like I need to justify my positions on the Breonna Taylor killing or Jacob Blake killings. If this is where we are as a community that full compliance with the narrative that these are racially motivated executions, and nothing short of it makes you a racist, then I really do have nothing to contribute here, and would probably best for all involved I was banned.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

You view them as "getting worse".
My view is that some of these discussions need to happen in very real and raw ways.
I don't think sending out a couple infractions from this thread would have actually solved anything.

Fair enough. There is value in letting people figure it out.

But these days I think a lot about what RGB said about Justice Scalia.

I disagreed with most of what he said, but I loved the way he said it.

And to be completely clear, she disagreed with everything he said and he someone in one of the most important positions in the world.

We're losing that kind of discourse.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Back on the actual topic, I don't really agree. Each case needs to be judged on its merits, and in each case, if what the police did was worthy of legal sanction (e.g. a murder charge), that charge needs to be laid and the historical practice of circling the wagons in the police department and police union needs to stop. I thought that was what everyone was after here. The "larger pattern" - the narrative of police violence - is only important to the extent that it helps to serve that goal.

I guess I’m trying to understand why Breonna Taylor made such an impact then. Clearly most people, activists, protesters, rioters, media and even CPers are not judging each case based on merit. Not this one anyways.

They’re using Breonna Taylor’s death as a jumping off point. Otherwise, why have so many pages been dedicated to her death? It’s almost all dedicated to the racism. Almost no one is talking about merits of the case. It’s only about the racist cops and how they should go to jail.

And there wouldn’t be so much name calling if people were interested in the merits of the case.

This isn't remotely true.

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/states

There are more unarmed white people killed by police than unarmed black people each year. There are also a significant number of unarmed hispanic people. There are more unarmed black people per capita shot by police. One reason for that is systemic racism. Another reason, you'd have to assume, is actual dyed-in-the-wool racist cops. Then there are a bunch of other reasons, like population distribution, some of which are themselves in turn partly the result of systemic racism.

This is obviously a very fraught issue, and I think that it's for exactly that reason that a straightforward, clear understanding of the facts - the facts of each case, and the broader facts about society - is so important. Nothing's getting done otherwise.

Yes, bad wording on my part. But you’ve clarified sufficiently for me as to why it’s important.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

The bend the knee thing is a reference to people literally getting on a knee to stop protestors from screaming at them. Or like the lady who was eating at the DC restaurant who had a bunch of white people screaming at her to raise her first.

Well, for the record, I don't think you should be banned, nor do I think it's at all reasonable to suggest that full compliance with the narrative is warranted (and if you don't believe me, read my last response to Cecil Terwilliger). I just think you should try harder to express your perspective in a way that isn't as likely to immediately provoke an extreme reaction to people. And when someone points out why your post resulted in an extreme reaction, it seems reasonable to read it back and consider if maybe there was a better way to put it.

I'm sticking with that post as an example, and I get now what you meant about the knee thing. But can you see how it could give the impression that you're subscribing to white nationalist dogmas about "white genocide" and subservience to black people?

I mean, there are so many landmines in these discussions that it's reasonable for you to be frustrated and give up on trying to avoid stepping on them. But even just a tiny bit of effort on that front would I think go a long way in preserving some goodwill in these discussions. Not with everyone, but at least with those who have been giving you at least some benefit of the doubt thus far.

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I guess I’m trying to understand why Breonna Taylor made such an impact then. Clearly most people, activists, protesters, rioters, media and even CPers are not judging each case based on merit. Not this one anyways.

I agree, but I think the reason is really just the misinformation that was out there right at the start, about the police having the wrong address, or already having the perp in custody before going out to execute the warrant. It made the whole thing sound incredibly egregious. I'll see if I can find the study I'm thinking of, but there is in fact research out there about first impressions of news stories, that even later corrections don't register for people and they still are affected by the first version of the story they heard. I think that's most likely what happened in that case.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Azure

Fair enough. There is value in letting people figure it out.

But these days I think a lot about what RGB said about Justice Scalia.



And to be completely clear, she disagreed with everything he said as part of someone in one of the most important positions in the world.

We're losing that kind of discourse.

This is looking at the past through rose colored glasses. If you had a heated conversation regarding racial injustice 40 years ago between a group of people, there's a high chance it would have ended in violence. And it only gets worse the further back you go, we're only a few hundred years away from guys solving an argument by walking a few feet away and shooting each other. It may seem like society is falling apart because the internet is such an effective amplifier, but in comparison things are pretty tame these days

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

This is looking at the past through rose colored glasses. If you had a heated conversation regarding racial injustice 40 years ago between a group of people, there's a high chance it would have ended in violence. And it only gets worse the further back you go, we're only a few hundred years away from guys solving an argument by walking a few feet away and shooting each other. It may seem like society is falling apart because the internet is such an effective amplifier, but in comparison things are pretty tame these days

We are not living 40 years ago.

I would say everyone on CP is not a racist. I agree that the internet amplifies everything.

But, it is pretty sad how people on here are happy to let someone get completely railed on just because he says something someone else doesn't agree with.

[nik-]

If one were curious to find go back and see where this current brouhaha started, which page would one click?

I mean "page 1" would be a valid answer, but I mean just this current battle.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by nik-

If one were curious to find go back and see where this current brouhaha started, which page would one click?

I mean "page 1" would be a valid answer, but I mean just this current battle.

Post 5110 for the most recent incident. You can use the quote jump button to go further back if you want to go down that rabbit hole.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

They’re using Breonna Taylor’s death as a jumping off point. Otherwise, why have so many pages been dedicated to her death? It’s almost all dedicated to the racism. Almost no one is talking about merits of the case. It’s only about the racist cops and how they should go to jail.

Despite someone's previous statement that this was the latest, it unfortunately wasn't.

Both Floyd and Brooks' killings occurred after Taylor's. But with Floyd, charges were laid 4 days later and with Brooks you had officers facing charges 5 days after the shooting. That doesn't bring back their lives, but wheels appear to be moving towards some form of justice...for now.

With Taylor you had six months of investigating and the narrative spun originally, that still resonates with a lot of people, is that she was asleep in her bed and this was the wrong house with the suspect already in custody. It looked like a complete and utter mess if you took that narrative at face-value and those that did can't believe the police weren't charged much earlier (or eventually at all).

Then there's the nuance of it. I've said since the beginning that the only charge there could be was some form of reckless shooting and maybe going after the signing-officer if there was intentional mistakes on it. But otherwise, legally speaking, there wasn't much chance (read: none) of convicting the officers. But when you still believe this was the wrong house and she was just sleeping in her bed, that seems absolutely crazy to get your head around. And then even when you get all the information, it still looks like a travesty of justice that no one will be legally blamed for her killing despite neither her or her boyfriend doing anything legally wrong that night (ignoring that they dropped the search after her killing).

And on top of that it's politicized. Defund the police vs Blue Lives Matter. Hard-stances against criminals vs those who recognize the war on drugs as a failure. Etc. etc. Stupid policies like no-knock warrants with no-body cameras despite having them available.

So I think with Breonna Taylor, politics, misinformation, lack of justice, legal nuances, time taken, media wanting to sell the story, distrust of police and then all of this on top of all the other injustices in the Black community added up to a powder keg.

Oh and you almost certainly have Russian bots fanning the flames on Facebook, Twitter and Reddit to sow discourse that makes it way into threads like this.

[Weitz]

Wrong thread.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Azure

We are not living 40 years ago.

I would say everyone on CP is not a racist. I agree that the internet amplifies everything.

But, it is pretty sad how people on here are happy to let someone get completely railed on just because he says something someone else doesn't agree with.

I'm not sure what you're referring to here? Crown Royal railing on WO? Because by my estimation 8+ people took the initiative to join the "mob" (as you usually call it) and criticize Crown, and I'm not sure anyone that didn't explicitly criticize him agreed with Crown's approach.

Or are you talking about Crown getting railed on by 8+ people at once? Of which you were one?

I don't know. I do find it funny that 3-4 of the most common "mob justice" critics were pleased as punch to join in on this one. I think it's just difficult to take you seriously when you're no stranger to personal attacks but wax poetic about "discourse" when it suits you. You practically troll New Era in the American Politics thread at every available opportunity (and he trolls you back, no judgements made here).

Thing is, for all that's said about the internet mob, about personal attacks or discourse or bias or whatever, the majority of you who want to make it an issue lean into it so comfortably when it suits you, that it's just meaningless at this point. I mean I buy Corsi talking about discourse, guy tries constantly to keep it civil, but Azure talking about discourse? Ask him about an electric car and tell me what you think about his level of discourse.

A lot of people rightly disagreed with Crown's approach, but maybe it is sad that the people who pretend to hold up these values that are so important have zero problem dropping them when it suits them. At that point, why are you even bothering to criticise Crown? Who are you pretending for?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Is 40 km/h too slow? Probably not. What are people going to drive if they pass the new rules? People drive 60 mostly now I think so will they just go 50?

LOL! look at the drunk!

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Is 40 km/h too slow? Probably not. What are people going to drive if they pass the new rules? People drive 60 mostly now I think so will they just go 50?

This is probably posted to the wrong thread, and yet it makes more sense than about 60% of the prior conversation.