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Old 09-16-2020, 09:17 AM   #4761
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Netflix cancellations spike 8 fold: https://variety.com/2020/digital/new...ls-1234769354/


Netflix stock has dropped from a high of $557 USD during the pre release backlash to $490 USD, @ 441M shares outstanding, that represents a total loss of $29 Billion from what was a consistent upward trend. https://www.google.com/search?client...=netflix+stock


How does this even happen? They should have been projecting major loses well before the film was even released and abandoned it long ago. This is the same company that dropped "gone with the wind" for being problematic, but they're standing their ground on one of the most hated and financially disastrous films ever made.
Wasn't Gone with the wind on HBO Max, not Netflix? I also thought they didn't remove it entirely, but rather pulled it down to add a disclaimer but it's still up?
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Old 09-16-2020, 09:23 AM   #4762
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That's correct, it was never removed from Netflix and is still there now (I just checked). Like you said, it was pulled from HBO Max and re-added with a four minute introduction adding some context.
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Old 09-16-2020, 09:26 AM   #4763
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The Netflix description is hilarious. Movie known for its racism. For more, google BLM.


Like wtf? Literally everything about that description is offensively stupid.
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Old 09-16-2020, 09:58 AM   #4764
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I'm sort of familiar, just read the plot on wiki to refresh my memory and I don't think I'd have the stomach to read the whole thing. As I understand it, it presents the love affair between a middle aged man and a 12 year girl as a natural and organic thing and has gone on to be the most identifiable cornerstone of pedo culture. 1955 France is a pretty different time and place, and I can see how the book is a relic of a fringe idea of sexuality from that time and now reads as a monstrous thing in a modern context. Given how synonymous it's become with pedo culture, I would assume the book has done tremendous harm over the years as it can provide a path and justification for pedos to act on their urges.
I just re-read the book last month. It is outstanding while being super uncomfortable at times. It is really good insight into the mind of a pedophile.

There's nothing organic about their love, though. The seeds for his infatuation with pubescent girls stems from a traumatic event in his childhood and while you can understand the way he thinks by virtue of seeing the world through his eyes, it's no less abhorrent.

Art can make you uncomfortable. Sounds a bit cheesy - and of course you're under no obligation to expose yourself to something that makes you squirm - but it sure seems you have put some limitations on your own opportunities to experience others' experiences and gain a broader understanding by just shutting these things out.

You're so vocal in your opposition to this movie, Cuties, but you haven't even seen it. It just seem so puritanical that I'm surprised to be seeing somebody so proudly hold such a close-minded opinion. It may deserve the scorn, but you're not the guy to be passing that judgement as you haven't even seen it. And - as is often the case when people shout stuff down from the rooftops - I'm now curious about it and if you had just moved along instead of getting all riled up I never would have even heard about it.
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Old 09-16-2020, 11:06 AM   #4765
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I find it kind of funny that there seems to be some overlap between the people railing against cancel culture and the people gunning to "cancel" Netflix over this film (note: not saying all people critical of this film fit into this box). Matata, for example, had no problem defending a podcast where comedians say explicitly racist things and lamented cancel culture, but also has no problem casting moral condemnation on a book he had to read the Wikipedia summary to remember, and a movie he hasn't seen, because the morality of them is in question.

I haven't seen Cuties and probably never will. I did, however, watch the same clip multiple others did, and I felt grossed out by it. But, at the same time, I've seen the same things in Toddlers and Tiaras (as mentioned) and Dance Moms. The difference, from what I've heard, is that while TT and DM holds this sexualisation up as normal if not good, Cuties takes the opposite approach in it's message. It seems like this is the point of the movie, a full confrontation of what's already happening and what's normalized to make people uncomfortable and actually think about how people treat and normalize the sexualisation of young children.

I agree with Silver, art can and sometimes should make you uncomfortable. It can hold a message that makes you think and makes you reconsider the world in some way. Does Cuties achieve this? I don't know, but I highly doubt anyone of the many people who watched as much as I did can make clear judgements on that point. You do actually need to watch the film to understand it. I've consumed what I feel is a decent share of art that is uncomfortable (and some of it plainly disturbing) so, from what I've read, this movie doesn't seem out of place to me, but there is no question that it should be controversial. It's valid, however, if serves the purpose that art ought to serve.

It should also make us look at what positions we put children in and how we view them different. Why are things that purposely attempt to "adultify" or sexualize young children (pageants, some dance competitions, some films) ok? and why are some not? Why is Good Boys, or Taxi Driver, or Leon the Professional ok, and Cuties isn't?

I'm not saying they should either all be bad or all be good, I'm just pointing out that there seems to be a lot of inconsistency. We're ok when children are presented in overtly violent situations, and we're ok when young boys are put in adult situations (sexuality, drug use) for the sake of comedy, and we're even ok with putting young girls in real-life situations that sexualize them... so why Cuties, and why now?
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:01 PM   #4766
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Good question.

I'll admit that this is conjecture because I havent seen it, but art in general....its supposed to make you think. Its supposed to elicit a reaction that generates questioning.
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Old 09-16-2020, 09:18 PM   #4767
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Looks like a 4 part Challenger shuttle documentary was released today.
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Old 09-16-2020, 09:38 PM   #4768
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Netflix stock has dropped from a high of $557 USD during the pre release backlash to $490 USD, @ 441M shares outstanding, that represents a total loss of $29 Billion from what was a consistent upward trend. https://www.google.com/search?client...=netflix+stock
Wow, down 12%. What's more, the backlash has spread to other companies. Apple is down 17% this month; Amazon and Facebook are down 13%; Microsoft, Google, and Tesla are down 12%. The cabal is coming down!

Or maybe tech stocks have seen a pullback in the last 2 weeks and Netflix is part of that.
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Old 09-16-2020, 09:45 PM   #4769
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Many people just leave their subscriptions going...its a recurring bill they often won't even think about even if they don't use it much or at all. Don't give them a reason to even think about cancelling IMO.

Long term this is certainly bad for Netflix and for what? Its just bad business IMO
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Old 09-17-2020, 08:16 AM   #4770
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I watched Cuties last night. It was well done but uncomfortable. To me, it's a story of the lengths that young people (especially ones that are different in some way from their peers) will go to feel like they fit in.

The sexualization of young people is a reality - especially now where every kid has a camera and can send photos to anyone. It doesn't help to stick our collective heads in the sand and pretend that it doesn't exist. We need to discuss it openly in order to deal with it. Sadly, the message of the movie was lost in the controversy surrounding it.
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Old 09-17-2020, 08:27 AM   #4771
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I don't know how many non-technical parents I've talked to to explain what the risks are of giving their young daughters unsupervised access to phones and tables with camera and any number of streaming apps. They almost always have zero clue how easy it is for them to be live online high on having hundreds or thousands of viewers and watching that number go up as they do the things they see in music videos or what the viewers are suggesting.

Not directly related to the movie I guess but it sounds like the same kind of message.
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Old 09-17-2020, 08:50 AM   #4772
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I don't know how many non-technical parents I've talked to to explain what the risks are of giving their young daughters unsupervised access to phones and tables with camera and any number of streaming apps. They almost always have zero clue how easy it is for them to be live online high on having hundreds or thousands of viewers and watching that number go up as they do the things they see in music videos or what the viewers are suggesting.

Not directly related to the movie I guess but it sounds like the same kind of message.
And many of the people outraged about this movie pay no attention to what their kids are instagramming, snapchatting or tiktok'ing.
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Old 09-17-2020, 09:32 AM   #4773
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And many of the people outraged about this movie pay no attention to what their kids are instagramming, snapchatting or tiktok'ing.
To be fair, thatís pretty much every parent regarding everything ever.
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Old 09-17-2020, 09:56 AM   #4774
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I find it kind of funny that there seems to be some overlap between the people railing against cancel culture and the people gunning to "cancel" Netflix over this film (note: not saying all people critical of this film fit into this box). Matata, for example, had no problem defending a podcast where comedians say explicitly racist things and lamented cancel culture, but also has no problem casting moral condemnation on a book he had to read the Wikipedia summary to remember, and a movie he hasn't seen, because the morality of them is in question.

I put overtly sexualizing young girls and creating pedo spank material on a different scale then people saying things. One of my quirks I guess.


E: You really need to stop nursing this weird rage-boner you have for me, it's a bad look.

Last edited by Matata; 09-17-2020 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 09-17-2020, 10:18 AM   #4775
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I just re-read the book last month. It is outstanding while being super uncomfortable at times. It is really good insight into the mind of a pedophile.

There's nothing organic about their love, though. The seeds for his infatuation with pubescent girls stems from a traumatic event in his childhood and while you can understand the way he thinks by virtue of seeing the world through his eyes, it's no less abhorrent.

Art can make you uncomfortable. Sounds a bit cheesy - and of course you're under no obligation to expose yourself to something that makes you squirm - but it sure seems you have put some limitations on your own opportunities to experience others' experiences and gain a broader understanding by just shutting these things out.

You're so vocal in your opposition to this movie, Cuties, but you haven't even seen it. It just seem so puritanical that I'm surprised to be seeing somebody so proudly hold such a close-minded opinion. It may deserve the scorn, but you're not the guy to be passing that judgement as you haven't even seen it. And - as is often the case when people shout stuff down from the rooftops - I'm now curious about it and if you had just moved along instead of getting all riled up I never would have even heard about it.

It's not like I've seen none of it, I've seen images and clips and it is clear the majority of people consider it way over the line. I said what I saw was vulgar and off putting enough for me to cancel my account and felt compelled to pass on the message. I'd have left it there but you asked for my take on Lolita and while I can't comment on the book directly, it has made a distinct impression on our culture and I thought you'd be interested in my take on that as an outsiders perspective. When you drew me back into the conversation, I thought it would be interesting to look at the financial impact and I agree that the finances are too murky to pull anything definitive out the stock price, but I do think the 8 fold increases in cancellations was noteworthy.
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Old 09-17-2020, 10:25 AM   #4776
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I'm really enjoying High Score so far. But I'm also one of those geezers that grew up playing Atari and Nintendo, so it's right up my alley.
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Old 09-17-2020, 11:02 AM   #4777
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I'm really enjoying High Score so far. But I'm also one of those geezers that grew up playing Atari and Nintendo, so it's right up my alley.
I particularly loved the part where they go to the old Japanese guy that invented Space Invaders and look at his hand-drawn notes.

That was so cool.

Also...a couple of things, the guys from ID Games who invented DOOM? Brilliant. Those are guys who understood their market and really got it.

WTF happened to ATARI? Mistakes were made.
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Old 09-17-2020, 11:24 AM   #4778
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I particularly loved the part where they go to the old Japanese guy that invented Space Invaders and look at his hand-drawn notes.

That was so cool.

Also...a couple of things, the guys from ID Games who invented DOOM? Brilliant. Those are guys who understood their market and really got it.

WTF happened to ATARI? Mistakes were made.
I love the series, and put it on the same level as the Netflix documentary series around Toys and TV. They are brilliant and interesting.

John Romero was that guy that completely caught lightning in the bottle, and found the great market in gore games. He is the case of a game designer that probably should have stopped and his legacy would have been bigger then it is now.

The one on Roberta Williams and her role in almost creating the RPG graphic adventure was amazing to watch, especially when she was mapping out Kinds Quest.

But I look at game designers who probably should have stopped

Chris Roberts and the Wing Commander series. Brilliant games and storylines and completely bleeding edge technology. Then he went insane and went to Hollywood and flopped, and now Star Citizen is a mess.

Romero - I don't think he ever got back to the height of Doom

The designers of Duke Nukem

Oh and my favorite

Derek Smart - Very much like Roberts where he promised this bleeding edge really brilliant idea of Battle Cruiser 3000AD that he would never be able to deliver on. Now spends his days snipping people on the internet and talking about how brilliant he is.
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Old 09-17-2020, 11:51 AM   #4779
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I'm still getting through it, but I love the Kirby story.
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Old 09-17-2020, 02:16 PM   #4780
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I've only seen the first three episodes but am loving it as well. I do wish they would have given some screen time to Dragon Quest though. As much as Final Fantasy is more popular here in North America, Dragon Quest was really the first of it's kind (JRPGs) and is extremely popular in Japan to the tune of hundreds of different merchandise and a restaurant.
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