Protests in France

[activeStick]

Macron uses special powers to force through plan to raise pension age

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-reform-france

The French government has used controversial special constitutional powers to force through a rise in the pension age amid chaotic scenes in parliament in which radical left MPs sang La Marseillaise at the top of their voices to stop the prime minister, Élisabeth Borne, from speaking.

The president, Emmanuel Macron, took a last-minute decision to avoid a parliamentary vote and instead push through his unpopular plan to raise the pension age from 62 to 64.

Pretty wild scenes over there as citizens protest.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1636443893079130134

https://twitter.com/user/status/1636474948142219272

[blankall]

Seems like a reasonable, yet likely to be unpopular move. They're too many aging boomers and life expectancy continues to rise. Either you raise the age of retirement or give people less money per year after retirement.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

French people are lazy, entitled, and overuse their right to protest.

Yeah, I said it.

Every time I've visited there's been some interruption of some civil service because of a protest or a strike. That's not a functioning society and it's ripe for a big fall in the near future with so many countries populations becoming economically competitive.

Adapt or die...or just protest until it's too late.

That being said. I don't like Macron strong-arming it through, but it does seem like he needs to smack the French population over the head with a sense of the reality they all face. It's a calculated gamble to challenge a vote of no-confidence. We'll see how this plays out, but Macron is no dummy.

[MoneyGuy]

Moving retirement age from 62 to 64? Big deal. I think it’s been badly handled but the idea is sound.

[Mr.Coffee]

Yea, seems like a pretty wild overreaction by the French people.

[Weitz]

I dunno. I don’t know the ins and outs of French retirement rules. But if you planned and worked your life to retire at 62 and the government decides you have to work another 2 years id be very upset.

[activeStick]

The other side of this is how he just decided without a vote. Not really practicing what they preach.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by weitz

i dunno. I don’t know the ins and outs of french retirement rules. But if you planned and worked your life to retire at 62 and the government decides you have to work another 2 years id be very upset.

100%

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Yea, seems like a pretty wild overreaction by the French people.

Monsieur Coffee, as wild overreactions from the French public go, this won’t merit a footnote.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I dunno. I don’t know the ins and outs of French retirement rules. But if you planned and worked your life to retire at 62 and the government decides you have to work another 2 years id be very upset.

The alternative is not receiving enough even you are in your 80s and near death.

It's a global crisis. There is not enough money to fund retirement for the baby boomers. No way around it.

[bluejays]

There are two sides to every story. It's a bit inauthentic to call yourself a democracy and just shove such a change down. Certainly a lot of European countries can be labelled lazy or whatever but I really do applaud them in many ways as in North America it seems to be the corporate sector pulling the strings more and more. At least in many of these countries there a quality of life aspect. I believe France has the most vacation time in the world at something like 2 months vacation or something like that. There should be more countries pushing for better work/life balance. I work 60 hours a week and it takes a terrible toll quickly (I'm not proud of that).

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by blankall

The alternative is not receiving enough even you are in your 80s and near death.

It's a global crisis. There is not enough money to fund retirement for the baby boomers. No way around it.

What I don't understand about this is why isn't there more houses built for multiple generations to be living under the same "household", while still maintaining their privacy? There should be more creativity in this space to have three generations living somewhat together.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by blankall

Seems like a reasonable, yet likely to be unpopular move. They're too many aging boomers and life expectancy continues to rise. Either you raise the age of retirement or give people less money per year after retirement.

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Moving retirement age from 62 to 64? Big deal. I think it’s been badly handled but the idea is sound.

There was a guy one time who said the same thing 'round these here parts.

I believe they called him Steve.

I know it sucks, but sometimes you have to make moves like this. Macron isnt proposing this because its fun, he's proposing it because it'll keep the French Pension system solvent.

And the Generation that paid into that system that want what they were promised? When promises are too good it becomes almost inevitable that there are going to be strings attached at some point.

So take a good look...our Pension system isnt all that far off.

[JohnnyB]

I expected to see more 61 year-olds in those protests.

[pseudoreality]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I dunno. I don’t know the ins and outs of French retirement rules. But if you planned and worked your life to retire at 62 and the government decides you have to work another 2 years id be very upset.

Was that the plan though, or was to phase it in overtime? The latter is reasonable, the former less so.

I was okay with Harper's plan to slowly increase old age security to 66 and then 67 over time, but the Trudeau killed that.

[Envitro]

Having been to France many times, and having spent a lot of time talking to the locals about their way of life, I feel a bit torn.

There's something to be said about a slower way of life, being more deliberate in enjoying the small things, BUT on the other hand they enjoy 6-8 weeks of paid vacation, shorter work weeks, and are way more relaxed and generally work less "intensively" than we do in N.A.

That's not a bad thing, but at the same time they have to grow up a bit too. Their socialistic tendencies and calling everyone a "fascist" the moment they try to bring some realities into a population that's deeply entwined in a system of entitlements. They riot all the time at the smallest thing sometimes, so it's not a surprise that they're losing their minds over this.

All in all, it's very necessary but ultimately hyper-unpopular move by Macron. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by activeStick

The other side of this is how he just decided without a vote. Not really practicing what they preach.

Originally Posted by bluejays

There are two sides to every story. It's a bit inauthentic to call yourself a democracy and just shove such a change down. Certainly a lot of European countries can be labelled lazy or whatever but I really do applaud them in many ways as in North America it seems to be the corporate sector pulling the strings more and more. At least in many of these countries there a quality of life aspect. I believe France has the most vacation time in the world at something like 2 months vacation or something like that. There should be more countries pushing for better work/life balance. I work 60 hours a week and it takes a terrible toll quickly (I'm not proud of that).

Not sure I agree with this. We vote in people to make decisions and if we don’t like them vote in new people. But if your government is unable to form decisions based on the mechanisms of your democracy then really you don’t have a functioning government which is when you get Canada / USA. It’s not a good spot to be in. Decisions need to be made at some point.

[bluejays]

That's fair. I guess it depends on the governance around such decisions. Admittedly I don't know their political system (or any for that matter), but what you don't want is your politicians pushing things through which do require some debate and checks and balances for particularly important matters.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

French people are lazy, entitled, and overuse their right to protest.

Yeah, I said it.

Every time I've visited there's been some interruption of some civil service because of a protest or a strike. That's not a functioning society and it's ripe for a big fall in the near future with so many countries populations becoming economically competitive.

It sound like when I was in Greece. Almost every town we went to, had some kind of strike or civil disobedience movement going on. When we went, we were able to get dirt cheap tickets on a chartered flight direct from Toronto to Athens that had last minute empty seats available. The plane was chartered by some kind of Greek cultural group in Canada, so we were like the only non-Greeks on the plane. I swear to god I am not joking, but a group of passengers on the plane even started a protest in midair because they weren't getting their way about something. The young Greek Canadian guy next me was cringing and said, "well, welcome to us", and then laughed. He wasn't kidding. Fiery people I tell you.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I dunno. I don’t know the ins and outs of French retirement rules. But if you planned and worked your life to retire at 62 and the government decides you have to work another 2 years id be very upset.

I hear you but I would argue that you should not plan your whole life around a promise made by the government or anyone else for that matter. France has raised the pension age before and I'm sure they have reduced other benefits at other times.

I understand being upset, who wouldn't? But they have also proposed transition rules over the next seven years or so.

The government can't decide when you retire. They can just decide how much government money you will receive and when.