Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Azure

One thing is for sure, there is actually only a small group of people who would consider switching their vote from Liberal to CPC, and they are almost certainly not many of the people who are constantly claiming 'if only they would kick out the social conservatives.'

I remember this stupidity during the Harper years. All the boogyman stuff never materialized, and many of the issues around abortion are still lurking to this day despite Harper being long gone.

Canada had a quality candidate in O'Toole. Yes he perhaps wasn't the preferred guy, but he was good enough as a candidate to remove what was at that time already a corrupt Liberal government.

It is amusing how the Liberal supporters here who are making excuses keep saying 'i will only vote CPC if they do this, only vote if they do that', when in reality we all know they are never going to vote CPC.

Would those liberal supporters change their vote to the NDP or a different party other than the CPC? Ask yourself why that is, maybe it’s not just the social conservative boogie man stopping them and they aren’t just making excuses for why they don’t want to vote for the CPC.

If O’Toole was “good enough” he would have won the election, had he stepped up to try and implement meaningful changes he probably would have actually been good enough.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Would those liberal supporters change their vote to the NDP or a different party other than the CPC? Ask yourself why that is, maybe it’s not just the social conservative boogie man stopping them and they aren’t just making excuses for why they don’t want to vote for the CPC.

If O’Toole was “good enough” he would have won the election, had he stepped up to try and implement meaningful changes he probably would have actually been good enough.

Well...thats a whole other argument that you're necessarily giving proper consideration.

That drags in 'First Past the Post' and Electoral Reform etc.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Azure

One thing is for sure, there is actually only a small group of people who would consider switching their vote from Liberal to CPC, and they are almost certainly not many of the people who are constantly claiming 'if only they would kick out the social conservatives.'

I remember this stupidity during the Harper years. All the boogyman stuff never materialized, and many of the issues around abortion are still lurking to this day despite Harper being long gone.

Canada had a quality candidate in O'Toole. Yes he perhaps wasn't the preferred guy, but he was good enough as a candidate to remove what was at that time already a corrupt Liberal government.

It is amusing how the Liberal supporters here who are making excuses keep saying 'i will only vote CPC if they do this, only vote if they do that', when in reality we all know they are never going to vote CPC.

Maybe that's true of some CP members, but I think you're underestimating that in the voter base.
I know a lot of people who voted CPC for the first time with O'Toole (myself included) and definitely won't vote for PP.

There's a lot of centrists who don't like Trudeau but can't go far right Conservative.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Locke

Well...thats a whole other argument that you're necessarily giving proper consideration.

That drags in 'First Past the Post' and Electoral Reform etc.

Honestly what kind of electoral reform would have significantly impacted the results in favour of O’Toole?

His party got less than 34% of the popular vote.

His party doesn’t need electoral reform, it needs to change its policies.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Honestly what kind of electoral reform would have significantly impacted the results in favour of O’Toole?

His party got less than 34% of the popular vote.

His party doesn’t need electoral reform, it needs to change its policies.

What percentage of the popular vote did the Liberals get?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Honestly what kind of electoral reform would have significantly impacted the results in favour of O’Toole?

His party got less than 34% of the popular vote.

His party doesn’t need electoral reform, it needs to change its policies.

Originally Posted by Azure

What percentage of the popular vote did the Liberals get?

Lol! They got the 'iggy_oi' popular vote.

That loser hack got 34% of the popular vote. That majestic winner got ~32%.

Good enough for iggy tho rite?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Azure

What percentage of the popular vote did the Liberals get?

About 1 percentage point less. Before you try and say “see the system is broken” after isolating that one point, would you care to keep what I said in the intended context and explain why electoral reform that would lead to someone who got less than 34% of the popular vote taking office is needed?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

About 1 percentage point less. Before you try and say “see the system is broken” after isolating that one point, would you care to keep what I said in the intended context and explain why electoral reform that would lead to someone who got less than 34% of the popular vote taking office is needed?

No.

Sorry, if you cant figure out why 'First Past the Post' and disproportionate regional representation is broken then I dont think I can teach you.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Locke

Lol! They got the 'iggy_oi' popular vote.

That loser hack got 34% of the popular vote. That majestic winner got ~32%.

Good enough for iggy tho rite?

I’ll ask you the same question I just asked Azure, if you’re not too busy trying to dodge it with what I’m sure in your mind are golden zingers I’d be interested to hear your response. You’re also welcome to answer the previous question I asked if you can fit it into your busy schedule if avoiding having to justify things that you post.

Of course if you’d rather just stay on your current course I’m willing to accept that you’re not capable of doing so which others will see too and, as you put it, that’s good enough for me. :

Edit: thanks for answering at least one question

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Locke

No.

Sorry, if you cant figure out why 'First Past the Post' and disproportionate regional representation is broken then I dont think I can teach you.

Broken and lacking perfection are 2 different things. Can you teach yourself that?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Azure

One thing is for sure, there is actually only a small group of people who would consider switching their vote from Liberal to CPC, and they are almost certainly not many of the people who are constantly claiming 'if only they would kick out the social conservatives.'

I remember this stupidity during the Harper years. All the boogyman stuff never materialized, and many of the issues around abortion are still lurking to this day despite Harper being long gone.

Canada had a quality candidate in O'Toole. Yes he perhaps wasn't the preferred guy, but he was good enough as a candidate to remove what was at that time already a corrupt Liberal government.

It is amusing how the Liberal supporters here who are making excuses keep saying 'i will only vote CPC if they do this, only vote if they do that', when in reality we all know they are never going to vote CPC.

Nah, I voted LPC and then voted CPC. I do think that the CPC should eliminate the social element and I still came to grips with that decision because I feel that the current Liberals are corrupt.

Don't get me wrong, if they stick with the social conservatives and the Liberals clean-up again, I'd probably go back to the Liberals. Frankly, the social conservative issue only gets bigger for me as time moves on and I would suspect that I'm not alone in that.

[Ozy_Flame]

Every successive CPC leader seems to keep getting more and more right-wing. PP is playing footsies with far-right trolls regularly (e.g. Diagolon and convoy types).

Get a leader that comes back to the center, is pragmatic and courteous, respects Canadian democracy and understands that the world is changing both physically and culturally, and doesn't cozy up to to the fringe. I'd be happy to consider that option.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

About 1 percentage point less. Before you try and say “see the system is broken” after isolating that one point, would you care to keep what I said in the intended context and explain why electoral reform that would lead to someone who got less than 34% of the popular vote taking office is needed?

You're just making excuses now. You said they 'only' got 34% of the popular vote, and it means they need to change their polices.

Do the Liberals need to change their policies as well since they got less popular votes than the CPC did?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Maybe that's true of some CP members, but I think you're underestimating that in the voter base.
I know a lot of people who voted CPC for the first time with O'Toole (myself included) and definitely won't vote for PP.

There's a lot of centrists who don't like Trudeau but can't go far right Conservative.

How many people have traditionally switched their votes from CPC to LP over the years? Not very many.

Fact is that most people are entrenched in who they vote for, and are very unlikely to change that vote regardless of what a party does or doesn't do.

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by Azure

How many people have traditionally switched their votes from CPC to LP over the years? Not very many.

Fact is that most people are entrenched in who they vote for, and are very unlikely to change that vote regardless of what a party does or doesn't do.

Last 3 elections for me have been CON - LIB - CON. Now I don't know who it will be, but it's really looking like it won't be CON for sure. Don't underestimate how many people are in the same boat, especially the younger demographics that don't follow their parents and don't play identity politics for life.

[curves2000]

An interesting piece from former NDP leader, Tom Mulcair. Sums up JT's time as a PM who is a climate fighter as pretty much a total fraud. A good read.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/tom-...ange-1.6322061

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Azure

You're just making excuses now.

No I wouldn’t do that, if for no other reason than I’d hate to steal your thunder in that area

You said they 'only' got 34% of the popular vote, and it means they need to change their polices.

I sure did. When your party can only consistently rely on majority support in 2 provinces you need to start looking at why that is.

Do the Liberals need to change their policies as well since they got less popular votes than the CPC did?

Yes absolutely they should, it’d be asinine to suggest otherwise. With that being said it’s pretty obvious that their policies very closely align with most of the NDP’s policies. So if you have 2 parties with similar platforms that combined are getting 50% more votes than you are running on a platform that doesn’t have a lot in common with theirs it strongly suggests that your policies need tweaking if you hope to persuade those voters to give you a chance.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Slava

Frankly, the social conservative issue only gets bigger for me as time moves on and I would suspect that I'm not alone in that.

Yup.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Azure

I remember this stupidity during the Harper years. All the boogyman stuff never materialized, and many of the issues around abortion are still lurking to this day despite Harper being long gone.

You say this like Harper was the source. Harper had a cabinet and PMO that kept that element in check, much to the displeasure of the party base.

Scheer got the leadership in part because he was willing to 'give a voice back to the grassroots' of the party, which were the same people they fought so hard to muzzle and relegate to the backbenches. Guys like Brad Trost who managed to finish fourth in that leadership election ahead of some prominent party members who had held cabinet positions. Follow it up with anti-abortion organizations propelling Leslyn Lewis to being a prominent party member. Also throw in an interim leader who is openly anti-abortion and voted in favor of an anti-abortion bill in 2021.

So if you're wondering why there's still the specter of abortion still haunts the CPC, it's because abortion is still a very important topic to a not-insignificant number of members of the CPC.

[Yoho]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1638656312170147842

This is getting awesome.