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Old 08-07-2017, 08:41 AM   #1
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Default Darren Haynes - Updated Top 20 Prospects

Darren Haynes with Aaron Vickers just posted his podcast discussing the Flames Top 20 Prospects ( he does this twice a year Aug & Feb)

Similar, but some variance with CP's Top 20

Top 20 prospects:

Here they are with my brief summation on comments by Haynes or Vickers on each choice:

1. Tyler Parsons - all he does is win, will be in either ECHL or AHL this year, Jonathan Quick replica, best goaltender prospect in hockey.

2. Mark Jankowski - great rookie season as a pro, has gone from being perceived as a reach pick to top prospect, going to be an NHL player and ceiling not yet defined (could be 1st or 2nd line C)

3. Rasmus Andersson - developing well, getting close to pushing for a full time role with the Flames

4. Adam Fox - fast riser, great freshman year at Harvard

5. Juuso Valimaki - has size, high skill, mobile d-man, smart and thinks the game well,

6. Dillon Dube - tenacious, plays with fire, can play checking role but exhibits scoring skill too

7. Spencer Foo - might have top line potential, expectation at some point in 2017/18 season will play with the Flames

8. Jon Gilles - set back by injury last year, Rittich also taking some crease time on him, but still has good potential - thus is an important year for him

9. Oliver Kylington - not a better skating d-man among prospects, but decision making ability still a question

10. Andrew Mangiapane - does nothing but score, his value continues to elevate

11. Emile Poirier - still has Brad Marchand potential, is now a reclamation project, is waiver eligible this year so chance with a strong camp he lands with an NHL team

12. David Rittich - has more pro experience than any other goalie prospect

13. Brett Kulak - capable 3rd pairing d-man

14. Morgan Klimchuk - did what he had to do in AHL last year, showed he can be an all round player

15. Matthew Phillips - small but developing, one to watch

16. Hunter Shinkaruk - needs to show something, not consistent enough

17. Daniel Prybil - held back by injuries, thinks there is more there

18. Josh Healey - likes to blow guys up, physical d-man

19. Linus Lindstrom - playing with men, developing

20. Adam Ruzicka - had got the size, needs more consistency

Last edited by Gaudfather; 08-07-2017 at 09:46 AM.
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:49 AM   #2
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Too bad Darren Haynes doesn't know anything about the Flames. -- New Era

I'm really starting to get excited about Fox. Might be considered for the US Olympic team. Crazy.
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:54 AM   #3
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For what it's worth, FlamesNation's rankings will be revealed throughout August.
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Old 08-07-2017, 10:43 AM   #4
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For what it's worth, FlamesNation's rankings will be revealed throughout August.
Do they still have that guy that hates the Flames, irrationally?
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Old 08-07-2017, 10:49 AM   #5
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Ollas Mattson>Healey, otherwise not a bad list
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Old 08-07-2017, 11:10 AM   #6
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I would have Valimaki up 2 spots. Other than that seems like a defensible list. I like their placement of Kylington, I think he was a touch overrated in our poll.
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Old 08-07-2017, 11:20 AM   #7
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Kylington is too low. He did not look like a 19 year old often in a mens league last year and I suspect this is a classic case of over-scrutiny of his flaws. He is such a strong skater that Flames fans and media have decided he must go the Rico Fata route... but in truth he does a lot exceptionally well. Don't forget he was named Sweden's top player after the Bronze Medal game... a game where he didn't even hit the stat sheet.

A few years ago I believe Haynes was far too harsh on Jankowski (15th?) and now he has him in his top two. I am expecting something similar two years from now with Oliver Kylington.
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Old 08-07-2017, 11:21 AM   #8
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For me, Foo should be ahead of Dube. He has a higher ceiling, is more likely to make it IMO, and is closer to being there.
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Old 08-07-2017, 11:23 AM   #9
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I agree with GranteedEV, Kylington is too low on this list.
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Old 08-07-2017, 11:28 AM   #10
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Yep, Kylington is the only one that jumped out at me as way too low. He's got some flaws, but not enough to drop that low when you consider his upside.
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Old 08-07-2017, 11:28 AM   #11
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For me, Foo should be ahead of Dube. He has a higher ceiling, is more likely to make it IMO, and is closer to being there.
How does Foo have a higher ceiling? He just wrapped up his 22/23 year old season as an amateur... Dube will probably be wrapping up his third year pro by the time he is 23... you can't discount four and a half years worth of runway Dube has to improve compared to Foo. Dube is also a possession monster as a center who seems to have that Backlund knack for weaving through NZ.
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Old 08-07-2017, 11:33 AM   #12
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Yep, Kylington is the only one that jumped out at me as way too low. He's got some flaws, but not enough to drop that low when you consider his upside.
9th is about where i would have Kylington. Guys got a ton of skill but unless he can correct those flaws he's a long shot as a career nhler. If he can make progress and work on them then he would move up the rankings.
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Old 08-07-2017, 11:36 AM   #13
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How does Foo have a higher ceiling? He just wrapped up his 23 year old season as an amateur... Dube will probably be wrapping up his third year pro by the time he is 23... you can't discount four and a half years worth of runway Dube has to improve compared to Foo. Dube is also a possession monster as a center who seems to have that Backlund knack for weaving through NZ.
I love the kind of player Dube is, but he is never going to put up big points. His upside is as a middle 6er.

Foo can put up points and his upside is top line. Hell, we might see him there before this season is over.
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Old 08-07-2017, 11:40 AM   #14
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9th is about where i would have Kylington. Guys got a ton of skill but unless he can correct those flaws he's a long shot as a career nhler. If he can make progress and work on them then he would move up the rankings.
Kylington is not a long shot as a career NHLer. Look at Shea Theodore.. a guy two years older than Kylington who (at 21) still has the same flaws as Kylington (at 19). He was playing regular NHL minutes in the playoffs at age 21 and still had considerable value to Vegas even with those flaws on full display in the biggest stage.

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I love the kind of player Dube is, but he is never going to put up big points. His upside is as a middle 6er.

Foo can put up points and his upside is top line. Hell, we might see him there before this season is over.
I don't see Foo's upside as top line. Maybe a third wheel grinder to Gaudreau and co but not a true top liner. He produced at 22/23 in NCAA but he was one of the older players, and doesn't seem to have any game breaking attributes needed to be top line IMO.

Dube was offensively productive at 17 and 18, he is on a more stellar path. If he is a middle sixer that'll be a solid outcome but I am not sure that's his ceiling...
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Old 08-07-2017, 11:42 AM   #15
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9th is about where i would have Kylington. Guys got a ton of skill but unless he can correct those flaws he's a long shot as a career nhler. If he can make progress and work on them then he would move up the rankings.
Almost every prospect is a long shot to make the NHL.

Kylington is 10 months older than Fox and already has 2 years of pro hockey under his belt.

Considering his size, Fox is a longer shot than Kylington IMO.

Both have almost unlimited upside.

So for me, it is weird/wrong to have Fox that much higher than Kylington. They should be pretty much side by side.
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Old 08-07-2017, 12:26 PM   #16
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I want to be a Kylington fan, but I'm not sure whether he's just having fun out there or if he has the ability to not make those stupid plays. I honestly haven't seen him enough in regular league play to get a sense of that; I normally see him only during tournaments or development style camps.

So on the premise that I (nor many other posters) really don't know what I'm talking about, I am always hesitant about prospects with poor decision making. Especially when it comes to defencemen. Imagining when/if he makes the Flames, I think he will be the most frustrating player for me to watch. I can't see him being the guy that I look forward to being on the ice, because those stupid plays are so much more damaging than the brilliance. Similar to those later Phaneuf Flames years, where he was always out of position trying to make massive hits.

Of course, this is my personal opinion, but I struggle to rank a prospect very high when I'm fearing seeing him actually play for my team.
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Old 08-07-2017, 12:37 PM   #17
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It's always interesting with guys like Kylington. It is not uncommon in the minors, juniors, tournaments, etc. for guys to take chances, to try and do something to get noticed. Trying too hard.

Then, when they get to the NHL, they stop taking so many chances.

For some guys, they actually play a lot smarter, and better, once they get to the show. I am not saying this will happen with him, but it might.
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Old 08-07-2017, 12:50 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern View Post
I want to be a Kylington fan, but I'm not sure whether he's just having fun out there or if he has the ability to not make those stupid plays. I honestly haven't seen him enough in regular league play to get a sense of that; I normally see him only during tournaments or development style camps.

So on the premise that I (nor many other posters) really don't know what I'm talking about, I am always hesitant about prospects with poor decision making. Especially when it comes to defencemen. Imagining when/if he makes the Flames, I think he will be the most frustrating player for me to watch. I can't see him being the guy that I look forward to being on the ice, because those stupid plays are so much more damaging than the brilliance. Similar to those later Phaneuf Flames years, where he was always out of position trying to make massive hits.

Of course, this is my personal opinion, but I struggle to rank a prospect very high when I'm fearing seeing him actually play for my team.
Here are the various comments I made on Kylington during last year's AHL season when I watched. And keep in mind he was a nineteen year old in a league where the rookies are usually twenty or even twenty-one.

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Kylington (His defensive game looks very good. Managing the puck very well, unafraid and uniquely able to make skilled plays, and I don't think he got beat even once all game. Also a sweet penalty killer. Was open a few times on the points where the forwards never found him, otherwise played a very smooth game in that TJ Brodie/Duncan Keith mold. I would like to see him be on PK1 soon.)
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Kylington was strong 5v5 but as soon as the game opened up 4v4 he started trying to thread the needle without a decent passing angle. He did get caught once on an iffy pinch late in the game, but I don't blame him on that one as he also had the speed to recover. Still I thought he had way more good plays than the obvious bad ones.
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- Kylington is a neutral ice takeeaway-machine. Also had a knee one-timer on the PP off a poorly placed pass, that was impressive.

- Stockton's been kind of sloppy (Kylington and Morrison both had a pass picked off through the middle, and Wotherspoon/Morrison pairing allowed a breakaway against as well as some other breakaways at other times), though San Diego is such a bad team that it hasn't been a problem.
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If I am reading this correctly, Kylington's 13 points is an AHL career high for him. Does it in 23 games VS 12-in-47 last year.
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Jankowski with a sweet setup to Kylington, but Texas' goalie made a fantastic save.
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http://ahl.neulion.com/ahl/video/san...ton-heat/16915

Really nice 3v1 play with Kylington jumping into the rush
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I think with this blue line (Kulak-Kylington / Wotherspoon-Kostka / Aulie-Ollas-Mattsson) the Heat can beat anybody in the AHL. Still a young team but they don't have guys way in over their head like Morrisson, Doetzal, and Kanzig.
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Awesome stuff. And none of the points in this game were scored by AHL vets.

- Kylington, second-year AHLer and 19-year-old scores the go-ahead shorty. (not the GWG, but ultimately the playoff-clinching goal)

Did Kylington have some mistakes? Sure. There was one in game 5 VS the Barricuda with a 1 goal lead where he should have chipped the puck out of the D-zone but elected to carry the puck and it backfired, that he is probably re-playing in his head every night as he waits for next season to end.

Know what though?

Johnny Gaudreau had a similar mistake against the Ducks in the 2015 playoffs. Kids make mistakes. Gaudreau was a 21 year old that year, Kylington was 19 when he made this turnover (and others.)

Overall, I personally believe based on what I have watched of Kylington, the good does truly outweigh the bad, and the bad will only get reduced as he continues to grow. If he were playing in Junior last year I think we would be talking about all his strengths foremost instead of putting him through the kind of harsh scrutiny reserved for 23, 24, 25 year olds. And by age, he should have been playing in Junior last year.
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Old 08-07-2017, 12:59 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Here are the various comments I made on Kylington during last year's AHL season when I watched. And keep in mind he was a nineteen year old in a league where the rookies are usually twenty or even twenty-one.

Did Kylington have some mistakes? Sure. There was one in game 5 VS the Barricuda with a 1 goal lead where he should have chipped the puck out of the D-zone but elected to carry the puck and it backfired, that he is probably re-playing in his head every night as he waits for next season to end.

Know what though?

Johnny Gaudreau had a similar mistake against the Ducks in the 2015 playoffs. Kids make mistakes. Gaudreau was a 21 year old that year, Kylington was 19 when he made this turnover (and others.)

Overall, I personally believe based on what I have watched of Kylington, the good does truly outweigh the bad, and the bad will only get reduced as he continues to grow. If he were playing in Junior last year I think we would be talking about all his strengths foremost instead of putting him through the kind of harsh scrutiny reserved for 23, 24, 25 year olds. And by age, he should have been playing in Junior last year.
Exactly. If he were in junior, he would have been dominant, and everyone would be praising him the way they praise Fox.

If Fox were in the AHL last year, older forwards would have buried him.
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Old 08-07-2017, 01:03 PM   #20
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Exactly. If he were in junior, he would have been dominant, and everyone would be praising him the way they praise Fox.
This. Fans are incredibly biased towards stats and relative play to their peers in whatever level of hockey a prospect is playing.

It's exactly right that if Kylington went back to junior at such a young age fans would likely be gushing like crazy over an offensively dominant season. Instead he played above where he could have against men and showed huge promise mixed in with struggles at that level at his age.
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