[PGT] Flames win 4-2 over Panthers

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I hope the Flames aren't in a hurry to shed goaltenders.

Lack was a smart move until someone showed they were ready, they promote Rittich, does the job and then moved Lack to make room on the farm to promote Parsons.

But Smith is 35 with another year left on his deal.

If Rittich continues on his way it wouldn't be a terrible thing to have Gillies pushing him in a young tandem with Parsons wanting in.

Lack was a terrible move because it was pretty clear last year that Rittich and Gillies were both ready for the backup role.

Unsurprisingly, Rittich (and the rest of the youngsters) have outplayed all of the moves that were made.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Karl

So???

Why can't fans be excited that they may now finally have a competent if not a very good backup goalie?

Equally important is the fact that the team tries to win in front of him. In the past starting the backup was a signal to the team to take the night off.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Eh. When was the last time the Flames had a back up who has been a part of the solution and not a part of the problem? Rittich has earned some excitement from flames from fans. And Gillies and Parson are right where they need to be at this point. No reason to be down on them or discount their development. I don't think the flames have ever had this kind of goaltending stable developed from within.

To date, Rittich has 100% earned his praise. He gets it not just here, but from his teammates. I know it is the custom for teammates to thank their goalie after a win, but watching last night, he was warmly thanked. You know the players genuinely were expressing appreciation of his contribution to the win. They were not going through the motions.

The interesting thing will be when and how he responds to adversity because like death and taxes, it will happen. How he works through it will demonstrate what he can bring to his team.

Right now, I am completely confident when he is between the pipes. More importantly, so are his teammates.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Lack was a terrible move because it was pretty clear last year that Rittich and Gillies were both ready for the backup role.

Unsurprisingly, Rittich (and the rest of the youngsters) have outplayed all of the moves that were made.

I never got the sense that Rittich was quite there yet to start, and the worst that can happen is exactly what we saw - Lack was easy to get rid of once it was clear Rittich was the superior player, and I'm sure Prout will have his place once the roster limits are lifted and we need that extra bit of toughness against teams like Shelbyville and (hopefully) into the playoffs. For that reason it was a smart move that basically cost nothing and shored up an area of weakness in the end.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Lack was a terrible move because it was pretty clear last year that Rittich and Gillies were both ready for the backup role.

Unsurprisingly, Rittich (and the rest of the youngsters) have outplayed all of the moves that were made.

Pretty obvious that they were both ready?

Rittich had played a total of 32 games in NA.

Gillies had basically one pro season, and a total of 47 pro games. His numbers last year were 16-14-1 / 2.93 / .910

There is no rational way to argue that they were both clearly ready for the NHL.

Lack was a very smart pickup, and even though it didn't work out, it still served the Flames perfectly. Another month in Stockton showed that Rittich was in fact ready for a chance.

Sometimes players are brought in simply as fillers until the kids are ready. The fact that the kids eventually take the job away from them doesn't show that they are bad moves.

[sureLoss]

[Coach]

It's backwards.

C'mon sureLoss, you're better than that.

[googol]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Pretty obvious that they were both ready?

Rittich had played a total of 32 games in NA.

Gillies had basically one pro season, and a total of 47 pro games. His numbers last year were 16-14-1 / 2.93 / .910

There is no rational way to argue that they were both clearly ready for the NHL.

Lack was a very smart pickup, and even though it didn't work out, it still served the Flames perfectly. Another month in Stockton showed that Rittich was in fact ready for a chance.

Sometimes players are brought in simply as fillers until the kids are ready. The fact that the kids eventually take the job away from them doesn't show that they are bad moves.

I disagree, Lack was not a smart pickup. He was terrible and we'd be higher up in the standings if he wasn't signed.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by googol

I disagree, Lack was not a smart pickup. He was terrible and we'd be higher up in the standings if he wasn't signed.

Maybe.

And maybe without the 6 games in Stockton at the beginning of the year, sitting on the bench every night gets Rittich off to a slow start.

Then what answers do they have? They would probably be looking to trade for a backup and would have to overpay to get another team's castoff.

Also, Lack's record for the Flames was 1-2-0

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by MattyC

It's backwards.

C'mon sureLoss, you're better than that.

Slapshot learned how to Johnny?

[Gizmo]

Originally Posted by googol

I disagree, Lack was not a smart pickup. He was terrible and we'd be higher up in the standings if he wasn't signed.

I disagree with your disagreement. It was clearly an opportunity to allow Rittich and Gillies to further showcase themselves in the AHL to start the season. The very same line of thinking that started Jankowski in Stockton as well.

I'm loving the way that they're handling their farm system to allow guys like Ferland, Jankowski, Hathaway, Kulak, Rittich, and Mangiapane to first get a taste of the NHL and truly evaluate them before sending them down to make some tweaks to their game. Look at our roster if you're having trouble seeing the returns to that strategy.

That's been the critical management task that our neighbours to the north haven't done with all their top 5 picks over the past decade

[googol]

Originally Posted by Gizmo

I disagree with your disagreement. It was clearly an opportunity to allow Rittich and Gillies to further showcase themselves in the AHL to start the season. The very same line of thinking that started Jankowski in Stockton as well.

I'm loving the way that they're handling their farm system to allow guys like Ferland, Jankowski, Hathaway, Kulak, Rittich, and Mangiapane to first get a taste of the NHL and truly evaluate them before sending them down to make some tweaks to their game. Look at our roster if you're having trouble seeing the returns to that strategy.

That's been the critical management task that our neighbours to the north haven't done with all their top 5 picks over the past decade

A few extra games in the AHL for guys like Rittich and Jankowski who outplayed guys on our roster is what makes our farm system successful? All the while our backup and 3/4 fourth lines are dragging us down in the standings.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by RM14

Sweet seats Cali Flames Fan. Looks like you bought the whole section!

haha. and people are scared the Flames are actually going to leave town. Double dare you!

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Gizmo

I disagree with your disagreement. It was clearly an opportunity to allow Rittich and Gillies to further showcase themselves in the AHL to start the season. The very same line of thinking that started Jankowski in Stockton as well.

I'm loving the way that they're handling their farm system to allow guys like Ferland, Jankowski, Hathaway, Kulak, Rittich, and Mangiapane to first get a taste of the NHL and truly evaluate them before sending them down to make some tweaks to their game. Look at our roster if you're having trouble seeing the returns to that strategy.

That's been the critical management task that our neighbours to the north haven't done with all their top 5 picks over the past decade

If we iced this lineup from game 1, I would argue that we'd have an extra 4-8 points.

But we didn't, and kept the youth in the AHL for an extra 25 games. I don't see how you attribute keeping them in the AHL for a quarter of the NHL season to the recent success.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Maybe.

And maybe without the 6 games in Stockton at the beginning of the year, sitting on the bench every night gets Rittich off to a slow start.

Then what answers do they have? They would probably be looking to trade for a backup and would have to overpay to get another team's castoff.

Also, Lack's record for the Flames was 1-2-0

Highlighted for emphasis

[868904]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Lack was a terrible move because it was pretty clear last year that Rittich and Gillies were both ready for the backup role.

Unsurprisingly, Rittich (and the rest of the youngsters) have outplayed all of the moves that were made.

After 31 games in the AHL, it was "clear" that Rittich was ready? Gillies still isn't ready now.

Treliving played the goalie situation perfectly this year. Lack was a low cost, low risk move with upside. The upside never materialized, and Tre had two more bullets in Rittich and Gillies and one of them has worked out.

Treliving actually thought through everything and worked contingencies in to every situation. Signing and acquiring guys like Jagr, Lack, Versteeg is not a lack of foresight or faith in the young players, it's about building contingencies and having back up plans in case the young players fail. It's called planning.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I don't think Rittich stole the game. I think the Flames played a pretty solid road game, especially on the 2nd half of a back to back where the 1st half was a spirited track meet.

One thing I found interesting last night was that it was possibly the first game all year where I absolutely knew, from the moment they dropped the puck, that the Flames were getting 2 points.

Really? I agree that Rittich, though a big factor, didn't steal the game - the Flames had as many grade A chances that didn't go in as the Panthers so that's a wash. But I wasn't as confident about the outcome for pretty good stretches. That top line gave the Flames all they could handle, and they had a big push to finish. To me it wasn't the clearest outcome from the start of the game (that would probably have been the Canucks game).

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Regorium

If we iced this lineup from game 1, I would argue that we'd have an extra 4-8 points.

But we didn't, and kept the youth in the AHL for an extra 25 games. I don't see how you attribute keeping them in the AHL for a quarter of the NHL season to the recent success.

not sure why people treat hypothetical scenarios as fact...

IF these guys were up at the start of the year, there is absolutely nothing to suggest they would be playing at this level off the hop.

it could be easily argued that getting sent down made them work even harder to make it back to the big leagues.

Certainly, in the case of Hathaway, the broadcasts have mentioned on numerous occasions that getting sent down allowed him to evolve his game from that of being a grit/energy guy, to a guy that actually has some skill... having him in the minors and playing on the top line gave him a shot of confidence he didn't have last year.

the only guy that i think was misused was Kulak, whom the advanced stats said was much better than Bart... and yet Bart seemed to get a lot more ice at the start of the year.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Regorium

But we didn't, and kept the youth in the AHL for an extra 25 games. I don't see how you attribute keeping them in the AHL for a quarter of the NHL season to the recent success.

This really isn't rocket science.

The young players doing well on the team now looked flat in camp. Handing them a spot on the big club when they didn't earn it out of camp could have lead to their confidence suffering and an even slower start.

Instead, the likes of Janko, Hathaway etc started tearing the AHL a new one, were soon called up, and their confidence and momentum carried over to the NHL.

Pretty simple explanation really.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Regorium

If we iced this lineup from game 1, I would argue that we'd have an extra 4-8 points.

But we didn't, and kept the youth in the AHL for an extra 25 games. I don't see how you attribute keeping them in the AHL for a quarter of the NHL season to the recent success.

Playing Hathaway, Mangiapane and Jankowski (only one of whom I thought earned a spot in camp) from the outset would not have allowed that line to form in the AHL and light it up the way they did. Really, Foo was a bigger expectation to make the NHL than Mangiapane or even Hathaway IMO.

Rittich had played one period in the NHL, and had merely been ok in that one. The NHL game is a lot different for goalies - NHL shooters are way better, the game is a whole lot faster (however the D is a lot more structured). It's so hard to predict a good result from AHL play. The Flames have had several stellar AHL goalies who didn't pan out in the NHL and there's no way that Rittich was "obviously" going to be a great NHL goalie.

As it turns out, the GM's moves have worked quite well. You could argue equally that he gave each callup exactly the right amount of AHL seasoning this year.