Arena Negotiation Discussion v2

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Well they better pray for a reason for people to come live here other than oil and gas. We can’t fill the towers we already have. 50 years, 100 years, 200 years, you have to have some confidence the city will grow and be viable. Right now there is absolutely zero reason to believe the city is ready for any growth no matter what timeframe.

To me, a plan like that screams just how detached from reality the City Council is. They don’t understand how dire things are here. Calgary is in emergency mode in my mind.

Geezuz that's dramatic. Calgary 200 years from now won't grow and be different? Calgary hasn't even been around for 200 years, and you're predicting emergency mode two centuries into the future?

My god, some of this is just madness.

[GGG]

Nm

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by GGG

The picture of the layout clearly says event center. We have been using that term for well over a year now. I don’t think it’s trying to hide anything.

Well Event Center does imply something more open to the city when really its just an Arena for the Flames.

There is certainly a reason its been referred to as an Event Center.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Well Event Center does imply something more open to the city when really its just an Arena for the Flames.

There is certainly a reason its been referred to as an Event Center.

And Garbage Dumps are called Land Fills in planning documents. I don't see anything atypical from other planning documents trying to positively brand decisions.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by GGG

And Garbage Dumps are called Land Fills in planning documents. I don't see anything atypical from other planning documents trying to positively brand decisions.

Might be the norm, but it doesn't change the fact the main reason they do it is to distract the citizens from what it actually will be - a handout to CSEC.

[Yoho]

Those library's are just a hand out to book makers.

[Muta]

The project that interests me the most is the Convention Centre. With this facility in place, it will be on the Tier 1 level with other convention centres around the world and we'll be able to attract events and conferences that we otherwise would never have been able to bring. That means tourism dollars in a variety of industries.

The RFP is coming out this month.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Weitz

There is certainly a reason its been referred to as an Event Center.

Yeah... probably because it polls better. Calling it an "Event Center" is just using propaganda weasel words. It's like someone not wanting to say they live in a duplex so when asked they say they live in a "semi-detached house".

Originally Posted by GGG

And Garbage Dumps are called Land Fills in planning documents.

Yeah, but are there people out there trying to claim that a landfill isn't a garbage dump? Because that's what people are trying to do here. I don't really care what terminology they call it but I do care that they call a spade a spade and right now they're trying to call a club a spade.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Yeah... probably because it polls better. Calling it an "Event Center" is just using propaganda weasel words. It's like someone not wanting to say they live in a duplex so when asked they say they live in a "semi-detached house".



Yeah, but are there people out there trying to claim that a landfill isn't a garbage dump? Because that's what people are trying to do here. I don't really care what terminology they call it but I do care that they call a spade a spade and right now they're trying to call a club a spade.

No one is trying to say the event center isn’t an arena. I agree that they are using the word that polls better. I don’t see an issue with that. Landfill/Garbage dump, Duplex/semi-detached, Arena/Event center. Event center has been used since CalgaryNext it’s not new to this debate and it’s not trying to sneak it in the planning document like the member of the committee alleged.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by GGG

No one is trying to say the event center isn’t an arena.

The illustrious Councillor for Ward 1 is...

https://twitter.com/Ward4Ward1/statu...83206527881216

[LWcrowfoot]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Well they better pray for a reason for people to come live here other than oil and gas. We can’t fill the towers we already have. 50 years, 100 years, 200 years, you have to have some confidence the city will grow and be viable. Right now there is absolutely zero reason to believe the city is ready for any growth no matter what timeframe.

To me, a plan like that screams just how detached from reality the City Council is. They don’t understand how dire things are here. Calgary is in emergency mode in my mind.

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Geezuz that's dramatic. Calgary 200 years from now won't grow and be different? Calgary hasn't even been around for 200 years, and you're predicting emergency mode two centuries into the future?

My god, some of this is just madness.

I'm convinced Mr Coffee logs in around midnight each night, finds something to be overly negative about then logs out a happy guy.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Well Event Center does imply something more open to the city when really its just an Arena for the Flames.

There is certainly a reason its been referred to as an Event Center.

It's not just and arena for Hockey though. It's a far more flexible space that will have the ability to host a variety of non-sporting events.

[Joborule]

Calling it an arena or event centre seems potato, potato. Even the Flames were referring to it as such in the CalgaryNEXT proposal. Not sure why the guy in the article was getting bent out of shape over it. Everyone knows it's primarily for the Flames to play in.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by RM14

It's not just and arena for Hockey though. It's a far more flexible space that will have the ability to host a variety of non-sporting events.

When people say "the Flames" what they mean is "the Flames parent corporation". Every major arena in the world hosts a variety of non-sporting events.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by Parallex

When people say "the Flames" what they mean is "the Flames parent corporation". Every major arena in the world hosts a variety of non-sporting events.

When a concert or event comes to town, CSEC is not the promoter or the entity putting the event on. The promoter would pay CSEC for the costs + a service charge of certain building operation staff like ushers, concessions, and security. CSEC isn't in the business of bringing those events to Calgary.

Those events are independent of the CSEC business, which is why the Event Center is more than just an arena for the Flames and CSEC.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by RM14

When a concert or event comes to town, CSEC is not the promoter or the entity putting the event on. The promoter would pay CSEC for the costs + a service charge of certain building operation staff like ushers, concessions, and security. CSEC isn't in the business of bringing those events to Calgary.

Those events are independent of the CSEC business, which is why the Event Center is more than just an arena for the Flames and CSEC.

Sure, but lets be honest here. The only reason this is getting built is for the flames to have a new home to play in. No flames no event center. And they purely use that term to try and sway people who may not be keen on giving the Flames a extremely favorable deal on a new arena.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by RM14

When a concert or event comes to town, CSEC is not the promoter or the entity putting the event on.

Which is immaterial to the "Event Center" vs. "Arena". Arenas put on non-sporting events... calling it an "arena" does not (and has never) implied that it's just for hockey. Folk (Such as the counselors for wards 6 & 1) can call it an "Event Center" until the cows come home for all I care... but don't try to mislead the public into thinking that it's not just an arena by another name because that's precisely what it is.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Parallex

The illustrious Councillor for Ward 1 is...

https://twitter.com/Ward4Ward1/statu...83206527881216

Twitter Question
"How many economic studies need to be done that show new arenas aren't an economic driver for a city?"

Ward Sutherland
"You are right arena are not, but event centre are!"

That's not even coherent engrish. Is he trying to pluralize arena(s) like stadium --> stadia? Same with centre(s)? And is he arguing that every hockey/basketball arena that has been studied doesn't host other events?

A few tweets down the string it looks like that's exactly what he thinks.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Sure, but lets be honest here. The only reason this is getting built is for the flames to have a new home to play in. No flames no event center. And they purely use that term to try and sway people who may not be keen on giving the Flames a extremely favorable deal on a new arena.

I disagree, I think the City of Calgary would be actively looking to build an 18,000 seat modern arena/centre/coliseum/gardens or whatever they want to call it. The City would want that even without a hockey team.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Which is immaterial to the "Event Center" vs. "Arena". Arenas put on non-sporting events... calling it an "arena" does not (and has never) implied that it's just for hockey. Folk (Such as the counselors for wards 6 & 1) can call it an "Event Center" until the cows come home for all I care... but don't try to mislead the public into thinking that it's not just an arena by another name because that's precisely what it is.

I agree, calling it an Arena, or Centre, or Dome, or Facility, or Colosseum, or gardens, really should not change anyone's decision and the current discussion is a huge waste of time.