Big Brother 20

[MillerTime GFG]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The finale felt pretty rushed to me. I don't recall so many answers during the question period being cut short. Another season where the best player doesn't win. Don't get me wrong Kaycee was a good player but she did absolutely nothing in the first half of the game. Didn't win a competition and just sat in the back of level 6. Tyler from day one was making deals and making moves to influence evictions. Without his work in the first half of the game Kaycee would never have been in the final two chair in the first place. He still almost won despite foutte voting out of spite but Sam's vote ultimately decided Tyler's fate. I think he should have been more transparent with her in the end.

Clearly that was her plan though, and what ended up winning her the game was the fact that she didn't make any enemies. Not one. 3/4 through the season, I 100% thought Tyler was going to and should win, but Kaycee's play had me swayed by the end. Once she started trying in comps, no one could beat her. Her social game was 2nd to none as well.

I don't think you can say Kaycee would have never been in the final two if not for Tyler's work. I think she would have flown under the radar without Level Six as well. I think it's fair to say Level Six wouldn't have made it as far without him, but not Kaycee specifically.

I think she was the deserving winner, and I think the 5-4 vote was perfectly reflective of how close the decision should have been, IMO.

[Oling_Roachinen]

I don't particularly think Kaycee was an undeserving winner. She played a good social game, she won competitions but never had a huge target on her because of that social game, normally she would be an easy winner. But I do hate the voting reasons given after the fact.

Sam and Rockstar both said they thought Kaycee needed the money more. Rockstar in particular was all about the social justice warrior, anti-privileged, CIS, straight, white, male. Even Bayleigh commented on how much Rockstar hated white people. If Sam felt betrayed and didn't want to vote for Tyler, cool, very reasonable. If Rockstar had a better bond with Kaycee and wanted to give her the vote, also cool. But because they thought Tyler was privileged, meant there wasn't much room for him to get those votes.

Scottie, if you believe him, said he gave his vote to whoever won the last HoH. Not really reasonable giving a vote on what pretty much was a coin-toss. Especially when Scottie knew Tyler played everyone and was suppose to be this cutthroat superfan (remember how badass he thought he was wearing Swaggy's shirt and voting him out) but he ended up being a bitter baby.

Bayleigh's is a bit more tricky. Bayleigh hated Tyler and should not have expected her to vote for him. However, the reason she hated Tyler was because she misremembered a conversation. Tyler was 100% accurate in his version of events and that caused Bayleigh to lose it. That's tough luck. Tyler did have the opportunity to try and salvage that vote, and even did it a little bit with his good-bye message, but couldn't recover over something pretty much out of his control.

Fessy is Fessy, he voted wrong every other time. Why expect differently now? :P

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Re: KC not doing anything for the first half of the season.

Lets not forget Angela was barely on the show for the first half of the season. Some weeks I actually forgot she was even on the show. And it was part of her plan too. She had said she was going to be a background HG until Jury.

Among other things, this is one of the reason why BB needs to do a bit of a shakeup. Lower jury to 7 people, have more HGs, have twists where the veto winner must use the veto (without disclosing the twist until after the comp), give an early HOH winner an advantage later in the game etc. Change the format a bit. Nothing crazy like all the stupid twists that let America vote for a player and give them a huge advantage. Just small tweeks to the format.

But do something to encourage HGs to take chances and make moves.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Re: KC not doing anything for the first half of the season.

Lets not forget Angela was barely on the show for the first half of the season. Some weeks I actually forgot she was even on the show. And it was part of her plan too. She had said she was going to be a background HG until Jury.

Among other things, this is one of the reason why BB needs to do a bit of a shakeup. Lower jury to 7 people, have more HGs, have twists where the veto winner must use the veto (without disclosing the twist until after the comp), give an early HOH winner an advantage later in the game etc. Change the format a bit. Nothing crazy like all the stupid twists that let America vote for a player and give them a huge advantage. Just small tweeks to the format.

But do something to encourage HGs to take chances and make moves.

That's why I predicted she was the only person Tyler could beat of the final four when you combine that with the fact the other females didn't like her. She like Kaycee didn't do much other than what Tyler was instructing them to do.

We have seen a clear shift over the last few seasons where the person that does a lot of the heavy lifting and work to set up themselves up for the final two is not winning and the winners are the people that by chance end up sitting next to them. Clearly the days of Evil Dick, Dan Gheesling, and Will Kerby winning Big Brother are over as the new trend is butthurt voting.

[mile]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Lower jury to 7 people

Interesting that if it were a 7-person jury, Paul would have won BB18 and 19. Tyler would have won too. But I don't think that's the biggest issue - I think a 9-person jury is fine for a 16-person season.

I think the biggest change that needs to be made is the jury questioning format. Make it a final two going into the finale like the old format and give the them as much time as they need to explain themselves to the jury. Let the jury members as the questions they want as well.

With that being said, I still think Tyler, Paul, Dan deserve some blame for their losses. Tyler, Dan, Paul in his first season didn't take the right person to the end and sucked at answering the jury questions.

In other unfortunate post-season news, it turns out Bayleigh was indeed pregnant but had a miscarriage in jury.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by mile

Interesting that if it were a 7-person jury, Paul would have won BB18 and 19. Tyler would have won too. But I don't think that's the biggest issue - I think a 9-person jury is fine for a 16-person season.

I think the biggest change that needs to be made is the jury questioning format. Make it a final two going into the finale like the old format and give the them as much time as they need to explain themselves to the jury. Let the jury members as the questions they want as well.

With that being said, I still think Tyler, Paul, Dan deserve some blame for their losses. Tyler, Dan, Paul in his first season didn't take the right person to the end and sucked at answering the jury questions.

In other unfortunate post-season news, it turns out Bayleigh was indeed pregnant but had a miscarriage in jury.

Producer lady, Allison Gronder?, said they will show more jury segments and actually show the jury members watching the good by messages (all evicted HGs get to see all GBMs in full in jury). Hopefully that's a sign of other changes to the jury format like the questions.

Either open up the question period and then edit it down like they do the jury roundtable or straight up skip questions. Just give them one change to give a short speech and nothing else.

A pipedream but I'd actually love it if jury members were individually sequestered. I'd love to see a blind vote without jury strategy going on.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Producer lady, Allison Gronder?, said they will show more jury segments and actually show the jury members watching the good by messages (all evicted HGs get to see all GBMs in full in jury). Hopefully that's a sign of other changes to the jury format like the questions.

Either open up the question period and then edit it down like they do the jury roundtable or straight up skip questions. Just give them one change to give a short speech and nothing else.

A pipedream but I'd actually love it if jury members were individually sequestered. I'd love to see a blind vote without jury strategy going on.

I have liked how the Survivor final tribal has morphed into this roundtable type discussion. I totally agree that a transition for BB into this format, and yes pre-taped beforehand so it can be edited.

Perhaps having it happen for the final 3 on the Sunday so the jury has answers but still doesn't know who the finalists are. On finale night the last evicted can ask one question of each finalist before final speeches and the voting. This will allow the HG to actually answer questions fully instead of what can you get out in 30 seconds and give the jury time to digest those answers in making their decision and deliberate fully.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Asking questions or having roundtable discussion with the final 3 would probably be detrimental to the person who actually deserves to win.

Would make things interesting, but imagine a scenario like this year where both Kaycee and JC would have taken Tyler to the final 2.

Now imagine giving him an opportunity to explain why he deserved to win, and getting through to the jury...neither Kaycee or JC would be taking him after that .

[d_phaneuf]

I think it was dan who said the difference from his first season, to the 2nd one a few years ago he went from 2 hours with jury to 5 minutes

It makes no sense to have it so low, ive heard the survivor ones go hours

[Hockey Fan #751]

Originally Posted by d_phaneuf

I think it was dan who said the difference from his first season, to the 2nd one a few years ago he went from 2 hours with jury to 5 minutes

It makes no sense to have it so low, ive heard the survivor ones go hours

I think having the jury discussion live is a mistake. It might boost your viewership in the finale but if it ultimately results in worse gameplay in future seasons, maybe it should be reconsidered.

That said, this season it was close. If Dan had two hours with the jury in BB14 he would have for sure convinced them. Look at what he convinced them to do in 20 minutes with his "funeral".