Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Once again a poster doesn't understand the rh/lh system. Tell me - what RHS was Bennett being overlooked for? Bennett was drafted as a C and LW was his next strongest position. There's nothing in GG's system that asks for a RHS to be on right wing. He used LHS on right wing on his top two lines.

On D handedness was not about shots. It's about puck acceptance and passing in the D zone. The defenceman doesn't have to turn backwards to move up ice after receiving the puck on the boards. Brodie wasn't a shooter even when he played right side with Gio. The only argument you can make is that he's a one in a hundred guy who can accept a puck and pass better on the backhand. Or that he plays better beside an all-star defenceman. But then, who doesn't?

No doubt playing with Gio helped Brodie, but even after Gio went down with an injury, he played much better on that side. Brodie's vision of the ice is simply much better on his off side.

Bennett most certainly was not drafted as a left wing, he was drafted as a centre. He was put on the left wing because he shoots left. I'm not saying that GG insisted that every forward had to play on the side they shot on, this wouldn't be possible when the majority of the roster shoots left. But for someone who misses the net a lot, putting them on the off wing dramatically improves shooting angles, and those shooting angles are much more like what Bennett would have been used to playing his pre-NHL career as a centre.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

No doubt playing with Gio helped Brodie, but even after Gio went down with an injury, he played much better on that side. Brodie's vision of the ice is simply much better on his off side.

Bennett most certainly was not drafted as a left wing, he was drafted as a centre. He was put on the left wing because he shoots left. I'm not saying that GG insisted that every forward had to play on the side they shot on, this wouldn't be possible when the majority of the roster shoots left. But for someone who misses the net a lot, putting them on the off wing dramatically improves shooting angles, and those shooting angles are much more like what Bennett would have been used to playing his pre-NHL career as a centre.

I said he was drafted first as a C. He was put on the left side because whenever he didn't play C in junior he played LW. Also because Jagr played mostly RW in his career, same with Hathaway. Putting someone on their strong side helps puck protection skating up ice and also puts them in a better position for a short side one timer.

Bennett missed the net a lot because he missed. He missed a lot playing centre as well.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I said he was drafted first as a C. He was put on the left side because whenever he didn't play C in junior he played LW. Also because Jagr played mostly RW in his career, same with Hathaway. Putting someone on their strong side helps puck protection skating up ice and also puts them in a better position for a short side one timer.

Bennett missed the net a lot because he missed. He missed a lot playing centre as well.

We’ve argued a lot but I still have no idea what you think the flames should actually do with Bennett. You mostly just come here and post about how anyone who says GG misused him and MAY have played a role in his lack of development into a top line centre but you never actually have suggested what they should do.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

We’ve argued a lot but I still have no idea what you think the flames should actually do with Bennett. You mostly just come here and post about how anyone who says GG misused him and MAY have played a role in his lack of development into a top line centre but you never actually have suggested what they should do.

And you don't say what should have happened, other than maybe gifting him a top line spot.

I say he should have played better. He's been given time with Backlund, Gaudreau, Jagr and Jankowski. He didn't distinguish himself. There is really no one better on the team to play him with than Jankowski unless you bump a 20 goal scorer off the top line in place of Bennett, and what kind of mesage does that send. I'm saying this is on him, not either of his coaches.

[Flamenspiel]

Certainly he is earning his salary right now. What more can be expected? He is not someone that you shop, but if a great offer for a better forward prospect comes along ten you consider it.

[pepper24]

Sam Bennett was drafted to be a top line center, top 6 center at worst. He has not developed into that and regresssing. He's a 3rd line winger now and even mediocre there.

If one of the other 30 teams still believes he has top center potential you trade him now and move on.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

Anyone worried about his progression, ask yourself who really did show progression under GG?

Ferland? no... he was the only real option for a top line spot and while I think he is a key piece moving forward, Bennett would have had the same numbers on that top line.

Wow. Nice way to make sure you can't be wrong. But how does a player with a career high of 4 goals under Hartley, not show progression when he scores 20 goals under Gulutzan?

I'm not sure if I've seen a bigger distortion of reality on this site. Sure, you can easily think that Gulutzan stalled Bennett's progression and that a new coach will help Bennett. That's very fair. Arguing that Ferland hasn't progressed over the last 2 years? From a fourth liner scoring 2-4 goals to a 20+ goal scorer? Come on.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Wow. Nice way to make sure you can't be wrong. But how does a player with a career high of 4 goals under Hartley, not show progression when he scores 20 goals under Gulutzan?

Did Bernie Nicholls show progression the year Gretzky bounced 70 goals in off his ass?

[Oling_Roachinen]

If Nicholl's scored over 5 times his career high, or 230+ goals, while playing with Gretzky, like Ferland did under Gulutzan. I probably would have argued he did show progression.

Just compare the difference in opinion of Ferland in 2015 to 2017, and tell me this entire forum didn't think Ferland progressed. Like come on, why change history? I'm not a fan of Ferland and think he is an extreme weak spot (as a "top line RW") for this team. But to argue he didn't progress?

Also if Ferland can go from 4 goals to 21 with GretzkyGaudreau, why didn't they just put Bennett up there and have him win the Rocket Richard?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by pepper24

Sam Bennett was drafted to be a top line center, top 6 center at worst. He has not developed into that and regresssing. He's a 3rd line winger now and even mediocre there.

If one of the other 30 teams still believes he has top center potential you trade him now and move on.

He is not regressing. He’s 21 and had a great rookie year.

21!!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Did Bernie Nicholls show progression the year Gretzky bounced 70 goals in off his ass?

Ferland wasn't just tapping in empty netters from Gaudreau this year. He was sniping. Does he score 20 no matter what? No, but he scored a bunch where he was they key guy. I'd say the more troubling part of Ferland's game was that he went completely dry at the end of the year.

And Nicholls was a damned good player anyway.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Wow. Nice way to make sure you can't be wrong. But how does a player with a career high of 4 goals under Hartley, not show progression when he scores 20 goals under Gulutzan?

Ferland progressed statistically because he wasn't snakebitten. He was more dangerous as a playmaker and puck carrier in 2015-16 than he has been under Gulutzan. His goal scoring improved because it was inevitably bound to improve. That isnt revisionist history, here is an article written in 2016:

https://flamesnation.ca/2016/07/12/d...cheal-ferland/

And don't forget Conroy saying he was a 20 goal player before the 2015-16 season.

The real progression Ferland showed was all under Bob Hartley. He worked with the player to make him incredibly disciplined, to play a fast and confident style. The results just lagged.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Ferland progressed statistically because he wasn't snakebitten. He was more dangerous as a playmaker and puck carrier in 2015-16 than he has been under Gulutzan. His goal scoring improved because it was inevitably bound to improve. That isnt revisionist history, here is an article written in 2016:

https://flamesnation.ca/2016/07/12/d...cheal-ferland/

And don't forget Conroy saying he was a 20 goal player before the 2015-16 season.

The real progression Ferland showed was all under Bob Hartley. He worked with the player to make him incredibly disciplined, to play a fast and confident style. The results just lagged.

Haha wow
I expect not even you yourself actually believe a lot of the stuff you write.
Are you constantly just trolling?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Ferland progressed statistically because he wasn't snakebitten.
The real progression Ferland showed was all under Bob Hartley.

So the argument now is that a player, with 6 goals in his NHL career and a career high 18 points did not show progression under Gulutzan's tenure, despite scoring 21 goals and putting up 45 points last season. Even from the year prior that was a 20 point improvement.

The player that went 4-14-18 to 21-20-41 in 2 years did not show progression? That's the pigeonhole we want to go down simply because we want to make the revisionist history that no one succeeded at all under Gulutzan?

Oh CP. We've jumped the shark.

Look you can argue that Bennett stalled because of Gulutzan's system, I'd disagree, but we're probably going to be able to find out next season with a new coach if Bennett is able to refind his game. That's cool. I don't know why we can't say that Ferland was able to breakthrough while playing under Gulutzan, it's simply the truth.

[yourbestfriend]

Even though Ferland more or less disappeared down the stretch, he still put up very respectable numbers and proved he could keep up on that 1st line. I don't really care that he is being carried by Johnny and Monahan, that line was absolutely rolling the first half of the year. Even if we got another top6 RWer, i'd still leave Ferland in that spot.

Next year, lets just hope he improves his consistency over a full year. Based on his progression the past 3 seasons, there is no reason to believe he can't do this. I'm fully expecting Ferland to put his stamp on that 1st line next year while putting up career numbers again.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Ferland's game definitely progressed under Gulutzan, but one thing still haunts him as it has throughout his entire career.

Consistency.

He has amazing stretches of the season that add up to about 30-35 games of the season. The rest of the year he's passable as an NHLer, but nowhere near the same quality of player he is when he's hot.

This is generally a problem of young power forwards, and so I'm hoping to see him work on his consistency going forward. Until then, he will remain a 2nd/3rd line winger depending on if he's hot or cold.

Bennett has been consistent. Consistently bad. His game does not vary much throughout the year, and he keeps making the same mental errors that he did earlier in his career. Trying to deke through the defense or toe drag around them doesn't work in the NHL, especially when you try it 80% of the time. Bennett's game is suited to cycling the puck, but he often loses the puck when he has it in the offensive zone, and that's not on anyone else except Bennett.

I'm still hopeful that a better coach can get more out of him, but the problem with him seems to be between the ears, and not just pure skill, although his shot has let him down for two years in a row now.

He can still be an effective scorer, but his goals are going to have to be hard earned in front of the net. I'm not sure he has the size to do that, which makes me question whether or not he can truly be an effective offensive player in the NHL.

[pepper24]

Hey guys, let's get back on track to Sam Bennett being a bust. Ferland is fine and not an issue.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

He is not regressing. He’s 21 and had a great rookie year.

21!!

That's the sales pitch that Trevliving needs to use to the other 30 GMs. It worked against him for Lazar, now his turn to do the same.

[Joe Nieuwendyk]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

No doubt playing with Gio helped Brodie, but even after Gio went down with an injury, he played much better on that side. Brodie's vision of the ice is simply much better on his off side.

Brodie was moved to left side when Gio got injured with Engelland on the right...and he played great on the left side. I think Brodie just plays better when he's allowed to roam - the more structure, the less engaged he seems.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

And you don't say what should have happened, other than maybe gifting him a top line spot.

I say he should have played better. He's been given time with Backlund, Gaudreau, Jagr and Jankowski. He didn't distinguish himself. There is really no one better on the team to play him with than Jankowski unless you bump a 20 goal scorer off the top line in place of Bennett, and what kind of mesage does that send. I'm saying this is on him, not either of his coaches.

I always said I think Bennett should be on the top line and given a chance to make it his. If he’s given the same leash ferland got last two years up there he probably easily outscores ferkland.

However, I asked what you think we should do with Bennett for next year? Keep him? Trade him? Make him carry ferkland a equipment to the rink everyday?

And yes that 20 goal scorer on the top line should’ve been demoted in February and never put back because once mony got injured ferkland disappeared