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Old 07-07-2018, 02:12 PM   #1181
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With Foo, Dube and Valimaki dominating the prospects camp, and Mangiapane and Andersson pushing, is there any room really on the main roster? Only if Brouwer plays himself out, and he must be Uber motivated.

What does it all mean? Is everything I perceive just a figment of my imagination?
One thing at a time ... the main roster camp is a whole other ball game.
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Old 07-08-2018, 09:27 AM   #1182
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This was posted by someone in the monster trade thread, but I think it deserves a look in the roster building section.

Habs Fan Comparing Lindholm and O'Reilly prior to Trades

Heat maps for with and without for Lindholm suggest his level of play driving to dangerous areas may be more suited for a Monahan/Gaudreau pairing then Neal on that line.

Also looks like an elite penalty killer.

Either way this kid gives the Flames a lot of options.
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Old 07-08-2018, 09:39 AM   #1183
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The more I read about Lindholm and how they also have discussed trying Tkachuk on the right side I feel like we could see a top 6 early on like this:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Neal
Bennett - Lindholm - Tkachuk

A third line like this

Frolik - Backlund - Ryan

And a young 4th line

Mangiapane - Jankowski - Czarnik/Foo

Lazar, Brouwer, Czarnik, Foo all battling for 4th line RW but can also swap time on the 3rd line RW with Ryan at certain times during the game.

I still think Brouwer is all but done now too there just isn’t a need for him anymore.
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Old 07-08-2018, 11:32 PM   #1184
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Gaudreau - Monahan - Neal
Tkachuk - Bennett - Lindholm
Jankowski - Backlund - Czarnik
Frolik - Ryan - Lazar

That seems fairly balanced to me, and it allows the Flames to really see if Bennett is a center or not. Two very strong players complimenting him here. I think it is almost foolish not to try Bennett at center with a new coach, systems and line-mates, and see how he does. If he fails, he fails, and you move on. I just think it would be rather foolish not to try him again. Many people are penciling-in Lindholm as a center, but last year was the first season he played much in that role, and he is a year older than Bennett. I just think it is worth a look.

The nasty line:
Tkachuk - Bennett - Neal

The speed line:
Gaudreau - Bennett - Czarnik/Mangiapane/Foo

Bennett was tracking really well under Hartley, seemed to take a step back offensively under Gulutzan (but took steps forward defensively, which people don't notice), and I would like to see what a new coach brings to Bennett's game. It isn't the first time that under one coach and set of opportunities Player A struggles, while Player B succeeds, and when a coach is changed, the roles get reversed.
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Old 07-09-2018, 09:31 AM   #1185
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Everybody who has played with Backlund and Frolik has tracked well.
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Old 07-09-2018, 10:17 AM   #1186
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Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe View Post
Gaudreau - Monahan - Neal
Tkachuk - Bennett - Lindholm
Jankowski - Backlund - Czarnik
Frolik - Ryan - Lazar

That seems fairly balanced to me, and it allows the Flames to really see if Bennett is a center or not. Two very strong players complimenting him here. I think it is almost foolish not to try Bennett at center with a new coach, systems and line-mates, and see how he does. If he fails, he fails, and you move on. I just think it would be rather foolish not to try him again. Many people are penciling-in Lindholm as a center, but last year was the first season he played much in that role, and he is a year older than Bennett. I just think it is worth a look.

The nasty line:
Tkachuk - Bennett - Neal

The speed line:
Gaudreau - Bennett - Czarnik/Mangiapane/Foo

Bennett was tracking really well under Hartley, seemed to take a step back offensively under Gulutzan (but took steps forward defensively, which people don't notice), and I would like to see what a new coach brings to Bennett's game. It isn't the first time that under one coach and set of opportunities Player A struggles, while Player B succeeds, and when a coach is changed, the roles get reversed.
Maybe Bennett rebounds but I don’t think he’s a NHL centerman. Plus with your proposal, Jankowski is moved out of Centre to make room for Bennett? I think that’s putting way to much stock in Bennett.

Put Bennett on the wing with Backlund and Lindholm/Tkachuk. It’s the best chance for him to rebound.

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Old 07-09-2018, 10:29 AM   #1187
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Gaudreau-Monahan-Neal
Tkachuk-Ryan-Lindholm
Bennett-Backlund-Frolik
-Jankowski-

Gaudreau, Monahan, Neal is a typical top heavy first line. Makes sense enough.

Tkachuk, Ryan, and Lindholm is a product of the way Peters coached in Carolina. He loved Ryan in an offensive role, often with team sniper Skinner on his wing. One of the not-unusual-lines was Skinner, Ryan, Lindholm. So Tkachuk in place of Skinner makes some sense, especially as a very offensive orientated line.

Bennett's most (only) success came in his rookie season when he played with Backlund and Frolik. Give him one last chance to be in a position to succeed.

Jankowski's the odd man out when it comes to even strength, but if Bennett or Ryan falter he can take their place and obviously any injury to the top nine sees him play. Jankowski also gets second PK time after Backlund.
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Old 07-09-2018, 10:53 AM   #1188
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Am interested in thoughts on PP lines.
Flames were only +36 on PP last year. Top 10 is 50+. Colorado was +58. Does 22 more PP goal diff make the 11points difference in standing that put the Avs in the playoffs and the Flames well out? Maybe.

Lack of quality RH shots and simply overall lack of talent buried them (leaving out system for these purposes).

If this is wrong thread, I'll look elsewhere. Maybe special teams discussions deserves its own thread.

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Old 07-09-2018, 10:56 AM   #1189
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Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen View Post
Gaudreau-Monahan-Neal
Tkachuk-Ryan-Lindholm
Bennett-Backlund-Frolik
-Jankowski-

Ryan playing ahead of Jankowski? Doesn't make sense. Seems like a real waste of talent. I'd go with these lines. I just think that the second line would be that much greater a threat, and better on the defensive side of the puck.



Gaudreau-Monahan-Neal
Tkachuk-Jankowski-Lindholm
Bennett-Backlund-Frolik
-Ryan-


Ryan is more of a floater through the lineup IMO. Long term, the Flames need Jankowski to gain experience in that second line slot. Playing behind Ryan does not help the team in that regard.
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:12 AM   #1190
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First off I have to say I don't get much into the lines etc, I think there is so much to be worked out this fall I just don't see a point in guessing at it.

But from an overall team sense I do find the most interesting thing about the changes centering around the 3M line.

I like all three of ...

a) leaving it alone
b) moving Frolik down and adding say a Lindholm (or personally I like Neal better there)

or the other one that I didn't have but have seen from many

c) move Backlund and Frolik down to a third line and add a different winger like Bennett.

Either way it's hard to miss the added depth and options in this lineup.
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:15 AM   #1191
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Ryan playing ahead of Jankowski? Doesn't make sense. Seems like a real waste of talent.
That was one of the things that the fans of the Hurricanes took issue with Peters though. Peters loved Ryan. Played him over players like Rask. Gave him time with Skinner (and Lindholm...) while Rask played with McGinn.

The Flames brought in an NHL coach and then went and sat down with one of his favourite players to entice him to sign with the team. I'm sure they at least told Ryan they would put him in a position to succeed just like he was in Carolina. And really, why not? He outscored Jankowski and Bennett, and not by a small margin. It should be up to Jankowski and Bennett to prove they deserve to move up in that center role (which I imagine Jankowski would do, not so sure about Bennett) before they demote the 39 point player in Ryan.

Jankowski would get special team time, and with Peters line shuffling it sounds like all of this is moot because everyone in this thread will be right by game 8 .
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:35 AM   #1192
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c) move Backlund and Frolik down to a third line and add a different winger like Bennett.
If depth allows for Backlund and Frolik to move down to the 3rd line, I really like the idea of Dube slotting in on their left side. I think that would be such a good fit and if Dube earns a look in camp that really puts him in a position to succeed. Think the chemistry would mesh perfectly.
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:45 AM   #1193
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That was one of the things that the fans of the Hurricanes took issue with Peters though. Peters loved Ryan. Played him over players like Rask. Gave him time with Skinner (and Lindholm...) while Rask played with McGinn.

The Flames brought in an NHL coach and then went and sat down with one of his favourite players to entice him to sign with the team. I'm sure they at least told Ryan they would put him in a position to succeed just like he was in Carolina. And really, why not? He outscored Jankowski and Bennett, and not by a small margin. It should be up to Jankowski and Bennett to prove they deserve to move up in that center role (which I imagine Jankowski would do, not so sure about Bennett) before they demote the 39 point player in Ryan.

Jankowski would get special team time, and with Peters line shuffling it sounds like all of this is moot because everyone in this thread will be right by game 8 .
Not entirely true.

Peters was here first technically, but there's been a few mentions on the Flames almost acquiring Ryan at the trade deadline but Staal's family issues putting the kibosh on things.

So this isn't solely Peters asking for his guy.

And Ryan was only 13 seconds more per game than Rask, and behind behind six other forwards on a pretty thin team.
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:46 AM   #1194
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If depth allows for Backlund and Frolik to move down to the 3rd line, I really like the idea of Dube slotting in on their left side. I think that would be such a good fit and if Dube earns a look in camp that really puts him in a position to succeed. Think the chemistry would mesh perfectly.
I think one of the biggest questions in camp this fall is the plan if a guy like Dube, Mangiapane or Foo make a push and deserve a spot. I'm not going to get into last camp again, as I didn't feel the young guys kicked doors down.

But will they just waive Hathaway? Lazar? Buy out Brouwer in August, or work a retained deal for him?
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:52 AM   #1195
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I think one of the biggest questions in camp this fall is the plan if a guy like Dube, Mangiapane or Foo make a push and deserve a spot. I'm not going to get into last camp again, as I didn't feel the young guys kicked doors down.

But will they just waive Hathaway? Lazar? Buy out Brouwer in August, or work a retained deal for him?
Yea this will be a very interesting story-line because these young guys will need to stand out in a big way to force the team's hand...

having said that I actually thought Dube made a case for himself at the last camp and stood out more than the likes of Hathaway and Lazar but that he was better served going back for another year.

This year with more experience and maturity I wouldn't be at all shocked to see him push hard and I think he's just the kind of player that would flourish at both ends of the ice with Backs and Fro.
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:01 PM   #1196
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With the depth, and with the almost total lack of grinders, my thoughts are to abandon the idea of lines 1 through 4 (which I was never big on anyway), and go with 2 scoring lines and 2 two-way lines:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Neal (scoring A)
Tkachuk - Backlund - Lindholm (Two-way A)
Bennett - Jankowski - Czarnik (scoring B)
Frolik - Ryan - Lazar (Two-way B)

Sub Mangiapane, Dube, Foo in as desired. Personally, I love the idea of Dube - Ryan - Frolik as a second two-way line.
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:03 PM   #1197
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This lineup is so deep and versatile that you can basically take 4 LW, 4 Cs, and 4 RWs and just choose among them randomly. And it all works.

About the only pairing that I think is a certainty is Gaudreau and Monahan. Beyond that, you can mix and match any way you like.
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:13 PM   #1198
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I just find it unrealistic to keep excluding Brouwer until something gets done.

But I do agree they don't need to have a fourth line wasteland this year at all.
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:26 PM   #1199
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Peters was here first technically, but there's been a few mentions on the Flames almost acquiring Ryan at the trade deadline but Staal's family issues putting the kibosh on things.

So this isn't solely Peters asking for his guy.
So your're saying that not only does the coaching staff like Ryan but so does the management group? That only strengthens the argument that he will be placed in a position to succeed - at least at first.

And it's not just about time, but opportunity. Jeff Skinner scored 37 goals in 2017. In 2018, Ryan almost exclusively played with him. Peters really liked him in that offensive, top six role. Why think he would behave any different today? I think it's Bennett and Jankowski who need to prove they deserve the opportunity, not the player coming off a 15-25-40 season.
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:37 PM   #1200
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So your're saying that not only does the coaching staff like Ryan but so does the management group? That only strengthens the argument that he will be placed in a position to succeed - at least at first.

And it's not just about time, but opportunity. Jeff Skinner scored 37 goals in 2017. In 2018, Ryan almost exclusively played with him. Peters really liked him in that offensive, top six role. Why think he would behave any different today?...
Why? Because the Flames's group of forwards is much more skilled and deeper than anything Peters had to work with in Carolina. Your point about Jankowski and Bennett is valid, but I think Ryan will not get the same opportunities in Calgary simply by virtue of who else is ahead of him on the depth chart.
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