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Old 05-20-2016, 08:38 PM   #261
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Why do people cite articles from Breitbart as though it's a real news site?


I didn't know that was a contentious source. The same info was on other sites. Just picked that one.
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Old 05-22-2016, 11:42 PM   #262
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I'm not sure breitbart fails to qualify as a news site. That is, it's not my impression that they make things up. They just take whatever story they're covering and write it up in the most laughably biased fashion possible. So it's still sort of possible to read between the lines, at least?
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Old 06-30-2016, 05:37 PM   #263
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First self driving car death

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Against a bright spring sky, the car’s sensors system failed to distinguish a large white 18-wheel truck and trailer crossing the highway, Tesla said. The car attempted to drive full speed under the trailer, “with the bottom of the trailer impacting the windshield of the Model S”, Tesla said in a blog post.

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...-car-elon-musk
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Old 07-04-2016, 09:40 AM   #264
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Not a good week for Tesla in the news.

The company also failed to meet its production targets for the third quarter in a row.


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Tesla had tried to reassure investors that it was only suffering from teething troubles as it ramps up production of the X and was not experiencing any deeper manufacturing failure or weakness in demand. However, it indicated that it would miss its target of 80,000-90,000 vehicle deliveries for the year as a whole.
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Old 07-07-2016, 09:00 AM   #265
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First self driving car death
That's really the issue...people seem to be relying on it actually being "self-driving" and are not paying attention. You can't do that...at least not until EVERY vehicle on the road is autonomous. Judging from various videos people are treating these things like they are a passenger and not the driver (including, it seems, the person who was unfortunately killed in this accident). Something like this was inevitable but the question is whether it happens less often. The other question is if a truck pulled out to turn and was relying on the car coming the other way to slow down and stop is it really the fault of the auto-pilot mode?
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Old 07-07-2016, 09:11 AM   #266
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That's really the issue...people seem to be relying on it actually being "self-driving" and are not paying attention. You can't do that...at least not until EVERY vehicle on the road is autonomous. Judging from various videos people are treating these things like they are a passenger and not the driver (including, it seems, the person who was unfortunately killed in this accident). Something like this was inevitable but the question is whether it happens less often. The other question is if a truck pulled out to turn and was relying on the car coming the other way to slow down and stop is it really the fault of the auto-pilot mode?
It was the autopilots fault in that the autopilot saw the white trailer as white sky and didn't attempt to stop like a person would.

You cannot blame the person for not reacting. This is why this type of autonomous driving is dangerous. How can you expect a person to keep focus of your telling them the car will do the driving?

Having said all that, the proof is in the pudding. 132 million miles before the first death. That's far better than human driving. We're still going to see the majority of the cars on the road being self driving within 15 years
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Old 07-07-2016, 09:13 AM   #267
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K I didn't have a clue what kind of popularity the model S has in Europe.

They're everywhere! It felt like they were as common, if not more prevalent than the 5 series, A5 or E class. Maybe it's just cause I noticed them a lot more than regular BMW's, Mercs and Audis but I was really surprised.

I saw a bunch used as cabs. I even tried to convince my friends to take one just for kicks but no one wanted to
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Old 07-07-2016, 09:15 AM   #268
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Yeah. 79,180 units is way of the mark. Shares fell all the way to 2% since this horrible news
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Old 07-07-2016, 09:21 AM   #269
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It was the autopilots fault in that the autopilot saw the white trailer as white sky and didn't attempt to stop like a person would.

You cannot blame the person for not reacting. This is why this type of autonomous driving is dangerous. How can you expect a person to keep focus of your telling them the car will do the driving?

Having said all that, the proof is in the pudding. 132 million miles before the first death. That's far better than human driving. We're still going to see the majority of the cars on the road being self driving within 15 years

We had Autopilot on a 30 day trial. While it was cool, I still wouldn't buy it. I worked fine for us, but I found it couldn't react in time to people cutting you off, which is common in Calgary. You have to pay attention. The car will turn off Autopilot when you aren't touching the wheel, but that after a little bit of time. I think it should be almost instantaneous like the Mercedes is. Having said that, it still will drive if I have one hand on the wheel and I'm texting.
So, while it's cool, and I did find it was actually pleasant on the hwy to let the car do most of the work. You still need to pay attention, otherwise you're irresponsible.
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Old 07-07-2016, 09:26 AM   #270
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This guy was watching a movie at the time, just why.
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Old 07-07-2016, 09:43 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist View Post
It was the autopilots fault in that the autopilot saw the white trailer as white sky and didn't attempt to stop like a person would.

You cannot blame the person for not reacting. This is why this type of autonomous driving is dangerous. How can you expect a person to keep focus of your telling them the car will do the driving?

Having said all that, the proof is in the pudding. 132 million miles before the first death. That's far better than human driving. We're still going to see the majority of the cars on the road being self driving within 15 years
No, it's actually almost identical - higher depending on the state, actually. That number also includes motorcycle miles, which greatly inflates the mean.

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/ge...state-overview
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Old 07-07-2016, 09:46 AM   #272
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Yeah. 79,180 units is way of the mark. Shares fell all the way to 2% since this horrible news
There is a lot of talk among economists about what exactly props up Tesla shares...

http://streetwiseprofessor.com/?p=9982
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Old 07-07-2016, 09:47 AM   #273
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No, it's actually almost identical - higher depending on the state, actually. That number also includes motorcycle miles, which greatly inflates the mean.

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/ge...state-overview
1.08 per 100 million miles is significantly higher than 1 per 132 million miles...
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Old 07-07-2016, 09:48 AM   #274
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There is a lot of talk among economists about what exactly props up Tesla shares...

http://streetwiseprofessor.com/?p=9982
High product demand?

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/eve...ock-2016-07-06
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Old 07-07-2016, 09:51 AM   #275
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The reason: Selling cheaper cars leads to lower average selling prices, which leads to less profit.
Tesla's problem in a nutshell. They can't make a dime.
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Old 07-07-2016, 10:28 AM   #276
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1.08 per 100 million miles is significantly higher than 1 per 132 million miles...
Yeah, but that a) includes motorcycles, and b) includes a lot of environments where automated driving is decades off from navigating, ie. an Alaska Highway during a blizzard.
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Old 07-07-2016, 10:45 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist View Post
It was the autopilots fault in that the autopilot saw the white trailer as white sky and didn't attempt to stop like a person would.

You cannot blame the person for not reacting. This is why this type of autonomous driving is dangerous. How can you expect a person to keep focus of your telling them the car will do the driving?

Having said all that, the proof is in the pudding. 132 million miles before the first death. That's far better than human driving. We're still going to see the majority of the cars on the road being self driving within 15 years
Um. You can't blame the driver for not reacting when he is told explicitly to be aware and ready to intervene at all times (just like normal driving)? When it is 100% the drivers responsibility to be alert and ready to intervene? Please.

If a fully in control human that was aware couldn't stop then the autopilot can't be blamed (any more than a Volvo City Safety system can be blamed for not registering the danger and applying the brakes).

If a fully aware human can indeed stop in time then the only way the autopilot can be blamed is if it overruled the human. WHICH DID NOT HAPPEN.

The autopilot may have made an error in how it read the situation but it is the humans 100% responsibility not the auto pilot to drive safely. Period. There is no argument that can be made that says it's the autopilots fault unless it overruled the human interaction. In addition, the truck is also very much at fault for making a turn across traffic that required people to not just slow down but completely stop.

Last edited by ernie; 07-07-2016 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 07-07-2016, 10:51 AM   #278
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Um. You can't blame the driver for not reacting when he is told explicitly to be aware and ready to intervene at all times (just like normal driving)? When it is 100% the drivers responsibility to be alert and ready to intervene? Please.

If a fully in control human that was aware couldn't stop then the autopilot can't be blamed (any more than a Volvo City Safety system can be blamed for not registering the danger and applying the brakes).

If a fully aware human can indeed stop in time then the only way the autopilot can be blamed is if it overruled the human. WHICH DID NOT HAPPEN.

The autopilot may have made an error in how it read the situation but it is the humans 100% responsibility not the auto pilot to drive safely. Period. There is no argument that can be made that says it's the autopilots fault unless it overruled the human interaction. In addition, the truck is also very much at fault for making a turn across traffic that required people to not just slow down but completely stop.
I don't disagree from a court of law perspective, you're right. What I'm saying though, is this is a natural consequence of telling someone they have autopilot when is not really fully ready. Yes they need to be ready to take the wheel in an event like this. It's a legal statement to say "keep your hands on the wheel and pay attention just as of you are driving". In reality though, why the hell would anyone bother with autopilot? What's the point then? It's a natural consequence that people will stop paying attention
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Old 07-07-2016, 10:53 AM   #279
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Tesla's problem in a nutshell. They can't make a dime.
Almost as if that's why you don't see car start ups...Ever.

If Tesla can put together a vehicle line up that competes at multiple price points, they will be around for a long time (hint: that's what they're doing)

And, they already have the best selling luxury sedan.

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Old 07-07-2016, 10:59 AM   #280
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Tesla is obviously not going to be profitable currently when they are sinking everything into their Gigafactory and the Model 3.
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