The Matthew Tkachuk contract negotiations

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Number two, offer sheets don’t come in the mail. They are a contract negotiation. So again would require him to negotiate against himself with a team that was willing to seriously push Calgary’s ability to sign. So for example he starts negotiating with Rangers, tells them his asking price, they exceed it by $2 million and he turns it down.

Offer sheets can also come in the form of... an offer. That a player simply does or does not sign, because the agent in this case is doing the bulk of the work. Do you think players are sitting down with teams hammering out a contract? The agent’s job is to negotiate the deal based on what the player is looking for, when it comes to a viable offer, the player makes the call.

It’s the agent’s job to negotiate the best deal, and the player’s job to decide what’s right for him. An agent wouldn’t be doing his job if he didn’t negotiate a serious big offer from another team, but that doesn’t mean there’s any obligation or investment whatsoever on the player to sign it.

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Yeah, maybe we should wait and see what term and dollar Point signs for before using him as an example to prove a point of team loyalty?

Generally, Facts are important when trying to prove an argument. Speculation, not so much.

Considering you’ll never know what Montreal offered, you can go ahead and wait all you want.

What we know is that Point was Montreal’s first target, but Point wanted to stay in Tampa, so he did not sign the offer sheet. The report was not that it wasn’t enough, or that it did not appropriately factor in the tax implications. It was that he wanted to stay in Tampa.

That seems like enough evidence to suggest it happens.

This really just seems like a fruitless conversation though. A player preferring one team over another and taking less money to be on that team is not new. It’s not controversial. It’s not surprising or something that needs endless debate. What Point ends up signing for is completely irrelevant to the idea.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Offer sheets can also come in the form of... an offer. That a player simply does or does not sign, because the agent in this case is doing the bulk of the work. Do you think players are sitting down with teams hammering out a contract? The agent’s job is to negotiate the deal based on what the player is looking for, when it comes to a viable offer, the player makes the call.

It’s the agent’s job to negotiate the best deal, and the player’s job to decide what’s right for him. An agent wouldn’t be doing his job if he didn’t negotiate a serious big offer from another team, but that doesn’t mean there’s any obligation or investment whatsoever on the player to sign it.



Considering you’ll never know what Montreal offered, you can go ahead and wait all you want.

What we know is that Point was Montreal’s first target, but Point wanted to stay in Tampa, so he did not sign the offer sheet. The report was not that it wasn’t enough, or that it did not appropriately factor in the tax implications. It was that he wanted to stay in Tampa.

That seems like enough evidence to suggest it happens.

This really just seems like a fruitless conversation though. A player preferring one team over another and taking less money to be on that team is not new. It’s not controversial. It’s not surprising or something that needs endless debate. What Point ends up signing for is completely irrelevant to the idea.

Or it was “enough” but not “enough to relocate to Montreal”.

[Strange Brew]

[QUOTE=PepsiFree;7154720
This really just seems like a fruitless conversation though. A player preferring one team over another and taking less money to be on that team is not new.[/QUOTE]

No one is saying otherwise. While I’m curious as to why you believe Tkachuk is one of those players as I’m not aware of any facts supporting this, that is not the point up for debate.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Or it was “enough” but not “enough to relocate to Montreal”.

Also entirely possible.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

In TC’s example Point negotiates the offer sheet with Montreal but because he magically knows how far Tampa will go, he doesn’t let Montreal exceed that limit.

That is not my example at all. That is your bizarre interpretation of it. I said “if Tkachuk ever entertains an off sheet as an option it will be to leverage what he wants from the Calgary Flames.” I never said anything about terms or value. I never suggested that he would negotiate down from an offer he received. These are all part of your counter arguments.

In my example, Point doesn’t negotiate with anyone but Tampa. Then Montreal tables an offer for close to his ask from TB, and he signs it with a reasonable intuition that TB will match it. That’s all.


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[Textcritic]

Double post

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

He’s still got to sign the deal. Even then, I suspect that if Tkachuk ever entertains an offer sheet as an option it will be to leverage what he wants from the Calgary Flames. In other words, he likely won’t sign anything unless he is pretty confident the Flames will match it.


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In your example he doesn’t sign an offer sheet that exceeds what Calgary will offer, but would sign one that fits within what Calgary will match.

So what happens when the team he is negotiating with offers him something that he believes Calgary won’t match?

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Or it was “enough” but not “enough to relocate to Montreal”.

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Also entirely possible.

That's moreso my point. You don't have all of the facts and are trying to make arguments based on assumptions and there are other possibilities in his decision to not sign the offer sheet in Montreal.

For all we know, Point doesn't want any more term than something that brings him to UFA status, because he dreams of playing for his home town. Or maybe he just really hates Montreal.

Listen, I'm not saying you're wrong. Maybe Point does want to stay in Tampa long term. But the only thing we know for sure right now is, he would rather play in Tampa over Montreal, based on the offer he received from Montreal. That's all we know.

[CalgaryFan1988]

@pepsifree

If Tkachuk receives an offer sheet by another team and turns it down, by your logic he wants to be a Calgary Flame.

If he goes on to sign a 4 year contract with the Flames, bringing him to free agency. How does that fit your narrative?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

@pepsifree

If Tkachuk receives an offer sheet by another team and turns it down, by your logic he wants to be a Calgary Flame.

If he goes on to sign a 4 year contract with the Flames, bringing him to free agency. How does that fit your narrative?

Could mean any number of things. 1 being he gets a raise sooner. Betting on himself.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

In your example he doesn’t sign an offer sheet that exceeds what Calgary will offer, but would sign one that fits within what Calgary will match.



So what happens when the team he is negotiating with offers him something that he believes Calgary won’t match?

Who knows? I think it would depend entirely on the team and the offer.

But at this stage, no offers are coming that we know of. This could be because teams are not interested in Tkachuk as a player (although I doubt that). It could mean that he has made clear that he wants to re-sign with the Calgary Flames, which is something I think to be fairly plausible. We do know from multiple reports that Tkachuk is eager to work out a deal in Calgary, and that the team and his agent have been engaged in productive talks.


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[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

That's moreso my point. You don't have all of the facts and are trying to make arguments based on assumptions and there are other possibilities in his decision to not sign the offer sheet in Montreal.

For all we know, Point doesn't want any more term than something that brings him to UFA status, because he dreams of playing for his home town. Or maybe he just really hates Montreal.

Listen, I'm not saying you're wrong. Maybe Point does want to stay in Tampa long term. But the only thing we know for sure right now is, he would rather play in Tampa over Montreal, based on the offer he received from Montreal. That's all we know.

Exactly, and just because rumours that went public state “He wants to stay in Tampa” don’t necessarily mean that is a fact. They are still negotiating with Tampa and “He wants to stay in Tampa” sounds like polite deflection.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

That's moreso my point. You don't have all of the facts and are trying to make arguments based on assumptions

Right. Welcome to Calgary Puck.

I’d argue the percentage amount of conversations based on hypotheticals, assumptions, rumours, media opinion, etc, is in the high 90s.

If your point is that we shouldn’t make arguments when we don’t know all the facts, then you’re going to end up with us talking about nothing. ESPECIALLY when it comes to contract negotiations.

All we can do is make arguments and conversation based on what we know, which may or may not be true. I’m going to go ahead and continue doing that, because it’s fun. It shouldn’t have to be repeatedly said that opinions are opinions, based on whatever is out there, and even my opinion that someone is wrong, is simply an opinion.

Strange Brew’s opinion that Tkachuk would sign an offer sheet of $10 mil on any team is an opinion based on the info available.
Textcritic’s opinion that Tkachuk would only sign an offer sheet if it helped him sign with the Flames is an opinion based on the info available.

If you have a different opinion, let’s go. But if your only opinion is that “we can’t know these things” then you’re not going to have much fun.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Strange Brew’s opinion that Tkachuk would sign an offer sheet of $10 mil on any team is an opinion based on the info available.

Please tell me where I said this.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Yeah, maybe we should wait and see what term and dollar Point signs for before using him as an example to prove a point of team loyalty?

Generally, Facts are important when trying to prove an argument. Speculation, not so much.

Close all threads except post games.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Please tell me where I said this.

I have no idea if that’s exactly what you said, something close maybe? Or not. Or someone said something like it.

Just using it to illustrate the point. I don’t really care.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Right. Welcome to Calgary Puck.

I’d argue the percentage amount of conversations based on hypotheticals, assumptions, rumours, media opinion, etc, is in the high 90s.

If your point is that we shouldn’t make arguments when we don’t know all the facts, then you’re going to end up with us talking about nothing. ESPECIALLY when it comes to contract negotiations.

All we can do is make arguments and conversation based on what we know, which may or may not be true. I’m going to go ahead and continue doing that, because it’s fun. It shouldn’t have to be repeatedly said that opinions are opinions, based on whatever is out there, and even my opinion that someone is wrong, is simply an opinion.

Strange Brew’s opinion that Tkachuk would sign an offer sheet of $10 mil on any team is an opinion based on the info available.
Textcritic’s opinion that Tkachuk would only sign an offer sheet if it helped him sign with the Flames is an opinion based on the info available.

If you have a different opinion, let’s go. But if your only opinion is that “we can’t know these things” then you’re not going to have much fun.

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Close all threads except post games.

Right, because discussion on rumours and what ifs equals arguing your point and using hypotheticals as supporting evidence.... right.

Have a great day guys.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Those “rumours” are usually speculation by professional speculators.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Right, because discussion on rumours and what ifs equals arguing your point and using hypotheticals as supporting evidence.... right.

Have a great day guys.

Calgary Puck: serious business 4 serious fanz only

[Scroopy Noopers]

$7.3 x 5.