The Last Jedi Spoiler thread

[CaptainCrunch]

yes they did.

[CaptainCrunch]

So there's a rumor that they really want to bring Captain Phasma back for the last film in the trilogy, which makes sense because of not.

But if that happens I can see the final scene

Spoiler!

Rey and Phasma are fighting on top of, I don't know some kind of bridge over a reactor. Rey with a light saber, Phasma with some kind of stick.

Suddenly they lock weapons and stare at each other intently.

Phasma - "They never told you what happened to your mother did they"

Rey - "Kylo told me enough, he told me that they were drunk nothings who sold me for liquor"

Phasma - "Hey it was a lot of liquor . . . "

Rey - "Mom?"

Phasma - "Peaches"

Rey throws her down the reactor shaft.

[CMPunk]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

So there's a rumor that they really want to bring Captain Phasma back for the last film in the trilogy, which makes sense because of not.

But if that happens I can see the final scene

Spoiler!

Rey and Phasma are fighting on top of, I don't know some kind of bridge over a reactor. Rey with a light saber, Phasma with some kind of stick.

Suddenly they lock weapons and stare at each other intently.

Phasma - "They never told you what happened to your mother did they"

Rey - "Kylo told me enough, he told me that they were drunk nothings who sold me for liquor"

Phasma - "Hey it was a lot of liquor . . . "

Rey - "Mom?"

Phasma - "Peaches"

Rey throws her down the reactor shaft.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

So there's a rumor that they really want to bring Captain Phasma back for the last film in the trilogy, which makes sense because of not.

But if that happens I can see the final scene

Spoiler!

Rey and Phasma are fighting on top of, I don't know some kind of bridge over a reactor. Rey with a light saber, Phasma with some kind of stick.

Suddenly they lock weapons and stare at each other intently.

Phasma - "They never told you what happened to your mother did they"

Rey - "Kylo told me enough, he told me that they were drunk nothings who sold me for liquor"

Phasma - "Hey it was a lot of liquor . . . "

Rey - "Mom?"

Phasma - "Peaches"

Rey throws her down the reactor shaft.

Lol...I could almost see that happening. It seemed like Ryan Johnson was acting out of spite just to undo everything that JJ Abrams did. Now that we have a third director, I wonder if he'll undo everything that Johnson has done.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by blankall

Lol...I could almost see that happening. It seemed like Ryan Johnson was acting out of spite just to undo everything that JJ Abrams did. Now that we have a third director, I wonder if he'll undo everything that Johnson has done.

Episode 9 is going back to JJ, not a 3rd director.
So yeah, he may just return the favour to Johnson and crap all over episode 8.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Episode 9 is going back to JJ, not a 3rd director.
So yeah, he may just return the favour to Johnson and crap all over episode 8.

Please let Episode 9 open with a dream sequence where it's revealed that all of Episode 8 never happened, and instead was part of Rey's actual training by Luke to become a Jedi.

[Fuzz]

LOL. Nice.

Yoda to Rey:
The future, you saw. If nothing you do.

[CroFlames]

JJ has an insanely hard task of bringing the franchise back on track, moving the story forward, and making it interesting all in one movie.

Withe Luke already dead, I'm not sure how you close the Skywalker saga in a satisfactory way. When TFA came out, I thought episode 9 would be Luke and Rey together defeating Kylo and a legion of his Knights, Rey becomes the new leader of the good guys and Luke finds his peace and joins Yoda, Ani, Obi Wan and Qui Gon. Leia passes away as a legend of the Rebellion and the Resistance. Exeunt.

This is now impossible. Luke and Rey defeating Kylo wouldn't even be entertaining since Kylo is such an inconsistent and weak character. Like, big whoop.

Last Jedi was a slap in the face.

[CaptainCrunch]

so here are my early early predictions

Leia dies off screen and the movie opens with her funeral
Luke is dead, doesn't appear in a meanful role
Chewbacca dies with Leia, nobody really cares anymore
Snoke is completely dead and isn't even mentioned
Kylo Ren is unhinged and is betrayed by Hux.
Kylo Ren's new biggest asset are the Knights of Ren who are like Inquisitors who spend the movie trying to chase down Poe and the Resistance.
Rose and Finn are off on another hilarious mission, during the course of the mission they run into DJ and debate killing him, but at the last minute let him go because Rebellions are built on love or some crap like that.
C3PO has two lines.
BB-8 finally gets a gun and kills the new Death Troopers of the First Order
R2D2 does a noble self sacrifice.
Hux betrays Kylo and helps Rey somehow, the Knights of Ren kill Hux and a bunch of Storm Troopers
Rey and Kylo fight, Rey realizes the Kylo can't be redeemed and kills him.

There is no super weapon

In the end, Poe and Finn and Rose are all that's really left for the Rebels, they ask Rey to join them, but she can't, she's the balance of the force, the last scene is her meditating on Luke's Island.

[Tinordi]

Slashfilm podcast has a really good interview with Rian Johnson. One important take away was that Episode 8 script was written before TFA even premiered.

Johnson said that things that fans glomed onto like Snokes identity was after the fact. They didn't know how much the internet nerd machine would kick into overdrive.

Other good bits were that he wrote the script from a character perspective. If it didn't work to drive the characters forward then it was cut. Snokes identity ultimately isn't important in this context.

He also discussed Rey's lineage. Said that the second movie of a trilogy is supposed to be the test or the training. It's supposed to be challenging to the characters and by virtue the audience. Having Rey come from nobodies and being denied the satisfaction of knowing who they are is the point. Rey will not get easy answers, that's not going to challenge her character.

Anyway good to check it out.

[Ashasx]

The only character that has actually developed in the series is Kylo, and even then he's whiny, annoying, and you know in the end he's just going to lose to the new Disney princess.

So the idea that they didn't want to give a scene or even a couple of lines of dialogue explaining where tf Snoke came from because they only want to spend time on scenes that drive the characters forward... it's laughable. The only interesting character is Kylo and you can't tell me that Snoke's identity shouldn't be important to his development. 90% of the movie was complete uninteresting filler.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Slashfilm podcast has a really good interview with Rian Johnson. One important take away was that Episode 8 script was written before TFA even premiered.

Johnson said that things that fans glomed onto like Snokes identity was after the fact. They didn't know how much the internet nerd machine would kick into overdrive.

Other good bits were that he wrote the script from a character perspective. If it didn't work to drive the characters forward then it was cut. Snokes identity ultimately isn't important in this context.

He also discussed Rey's lineage. Said that the second movie of a trilogy is supposed to be the test or the training. It's supposed to be challenging to the characters and by virtue the audience. Having Rey come from nobodies and being denied the satisfaction of knowing who they are is the point. Rey will not get easy answers, that's not going to challenge her character.

Anyway good to check it out.

Its BS. Everytime I hear a Rian Johnson interview I want to punch his words.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The only character that has actually developed in the series is Kylo, and even then he's whiny, annoying, and you know in the end he's just going to lose to the new Disney princess.

So the idea that they didn't want to give a scene or even a couple of lines of dialogue explaining where tf Snoke came from because they only want to spend time on scenes that drive the characters forward... it's laughable. The only interesting character is Kylo and you can't tell me that Snoke's identity shouldn't be important to his development. 90% of the movie was complete uninteresting filler.

I agree. It makes no sense at all. Ren was turned from the next Jedi prodigy into the next dark side prodigy. How is explaining the motivations and backstory of the person responsible for that not important to his character development?

Johnson was just trying to be clever by dispensing with important plot points without any explanation.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by blankall

I agree. It makes no sense at all. Ren was turned from the next Jedi prodigy into the next dark side prodigy. How is explaining the motivations and backstory of the person responsible for that not important to his character development?

Johnson was just trying to be clever by dispensing with important plot points without any explanation.

Did you need to know things about the Emperor before Vader killed him to make it significant?

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Did you need to know things about the Emperor before Vader killed him to make it significant?

I keep seeing this point, but its irrelevant. This isn't the first time anyone has seen Star Wars. You're talking about films (the original trilogy) that never had any previous reference point for the audience to draw from, so you could probably leave a lot more to the imagination. By now we have 30 years of Star Wars, additional films, various content, and an understanding of the universe (right or wrong) to contend with. You can't just expect the audience to turn off their brains and say "its ok, we don't need any information" -- not now.
I would also say the execution of Vader/Luke/Emperor story held far more weight simply because Luke (and Vader) actually had character development that meant something.

According to the interview you reference, Johnson failed at everything he supposedly tried to deliver on. The fact that he thought leaving massive narrative holes in the story was the way to drive characters forward is almost laughable. It just tells me he was trying to be overly clever in his methods instead of actually having the guts to tell a significant story.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Did you need to know things about the Emperor before Vader killed him to make it significant?

I would argue that it was a different age.

Movie go'ers in 1983 were a different breed then they are now. We now have people that are thirsting to know more backstory about the characters that they like. I call it the Blair Witch Syndrome.

Going back to what you're saying. We knew enough about the Emperor.

We knew he was afraid of the Jedi as a threat.

We knew that somewhere someone had under-estimated him and paid for it.

We knew that Vader who was this unbelievably powerful armored creature who could choke people to death from across vast distances and block laser bolts with his hands and make chop suey out of people with a laser sword. Served him.

However I bet that if you transported Return of the Jedi for example to today, and put it in context to today, people would have similar complaints to the Last Jedi.

Look, personally, I didn't really need Snoke's background, would it have been nice to have? Sure, but the theorizing was fun. But lets be honest, Snoke wasn't designed to be the Emperor, he was designed to be an especially powerful red shirt who was put in the script to die and ascend Kylo Ren further up that old staircase of his journey.

I've said it before, I liked TLJ, from a visual perspective, really well done, from a acting perspective they did a good job, especially Mark Hamill. But from a writing standpoint, it just seemed disjointed and honestly, a bit lazy, and the habit of liberal theft of the OT for the expressed purpose of making this both a new movie and a complete reboot of the Disney Universe is jarring and inconsistent.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Did you need to know things about the Emperor before Vader killed him to make it significant?

This is such a tired point to explain the lazy writing in the Disney series. We need to know about Snoke, because not knowing creates major gaps in the narrative.

In the original trilogy, we had a bad guy who fit the classic evil trope. You could have him there without a gap in the narrative, as we had nothing from before the original series. Although we were curious about the Emperor, his backstory wasn't essential to the rest of the plot.

With the Disney trilogy, we've already had 2 trilogies before. TFA gave us brief details as to how Snoke and the First Order came to be, but we have massive gaps. At the end of ROTJ, we had a happy ending where everything seemed good. We now end up with a new set of bad guys. We also have Snoke who has been around since before the original trilogy and supposedly breaks the "Rule of two", which was a major plot point in the prequels. We were also given an incomplete origin story for Kylo Ren. Luke attacks him, thus turning him from Luke, but how did he end up making contact with Snoke? So by not giving us anything on Snoke, Disney has left out major storytelling relating to all 3 trilogies.

The issue is that Disney is giving us part of the story. With the Empire in the Original Series, we didn't need to know more, as his backstory was not important to the already established narrative.

It's just lazy writing. The writers obviously didn't bother to link the new movie to the source materials, including TFA, which it was a direct sequel to. It's obvious from Johnson's interview, that his intention was not to leave this for a third film. Although I see Disney retconning this in third film. Most likely we'll learn more about Snoke while the Knights of Ren are being fleshed out....at least I hope so, because the Knights of Ren were another major plot point that Disney chose not to pursue.

[CaptainCrunch]

I can't see them Ret Conning Snoke or any of the story lines in the third movie.

They'll just ignore them or bury them.

Hux - "You killed Supreme Leader Snoke"
Ren - "He was weak and foolish and I destroyed him"

That will be the end of that.

Poe - "I'm glad you found out about your family Rey, you wanna talk about it?"
Rey - "No"
Poe - "Right I have a gun that needs polishing"

Rey - "You betrayed everything, your teacher, your parents, even the Force"
Kylo - "And made things better for both of us"
Rey - "Kiss me you magnificent bastard"

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I can't see them Ret Conning Snoke or any of the story lines in the third movie.

They'll just ignore them or bury them.

Hux - "You killed Supreme Leader Snoke"
Ren - "He was weak and foolish and I destroyed him"

That will be the end of that.

Poe - "I'm glad you found out about your family Rey, you wanna talk about it?"
Rey - "No"
Poe - "Right I have a gun that needs polishing"

Rey - "You betrayed everything, your teacher, your parents, even the Force"
Kylo - "And made things better for both of us"
Rey - "Kiss me you magnificent bastard"

And then they find out they are twins.

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Johnson said that things that fans glomed onto like Snokes identity was after the fact. They didn't know how much the internet nerd machine would kick into overdrive.

This comment really pisses me off, this is the attitude that Johnson has had the entire time. Blaming the fans for their reactions versus himself for lazy story telling. I've been defending Last Jedi since it came out but I can't defend him. This is Star Wars, how the hell did you think people would react?

Also I don't think Chewie ever dies, he is one character they can keep re casting for years without anyone ever knowing or having to risk enraging the internet with CGI recreations