[News] Ken King: Flames' owners no longer pursuing new arena with City of Calgary

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

It's not just solely about things you can measure easily. As some others have mentioned in this thread having an NHL team in Canada and being able to attract big name concerts affects a cities reputation in ways that cannot be easily quantified.

The reputation of a city can influence the decision to move here, live here and stay here. People looking to locate to a vibrant big city from smaller towns or cities in Canada may be influenced by the city's reputation. If I'm a hockey fan and/or a music fan the presence of the Flames and ability to attract concerts may play into my decision to move here vs Vancouver, Toronto or Montreal. It can affect the decision of immigrants, people looking to relocate within Canada, students looking to go to University in a large city. How can we quantify this? We really can't easily but that doesn't mean the city's reputation in these areas is irrelevant.

If Calgary wants to be seen as a competitor to the large cities in Canada I think both having an NHL team and having the ability to attract concerts are important. How important? Hard to say. I know for me if the Flames left and we didn't replace the Saddledome and thus couldn't attract concerts I would be less likely to stay here long term. I'm a big Flames fan and music fan and then identity of the city would take a large hit in my mind if the Flames left and the Saddledome was not replaced. I know it's not the same for everyone.

I think some people are ignoring or downplaying the city's reputation if they think a new arena isn't important. Note that this doesn't mean I want billionaire handouts. But some people seem to think the Flames bring nothing and a new arena is irrelevant and I think that's a very shortsighted and narrow view.

On a global scale now that the Olympics are an ancient memory the only reason most people have heard of Calgary is the Flames and/or the Stampede.

Honestly, who the F cares about the global reputation of this city because of it's sports teams.

People in Europe and asia don't care about the Flames or the Stampede. The economist certainly doesn't care about the Flames when they rated Calgary the 5th best place to live globally.

People don't care about the Trail Blazers when they talk about Portland, or Austin. People don't talk about going to Berlin or Paris because of Football; New York because of whatever team.

The association of sports teams to a City's reputation is such a small-town and backward view of what makes a city an attractive place to live and work.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Ice_Weasel

"pockets of business owners" - and just who do you think own the businesses along 17th avenue? (hint: Calgarians...who live here, and pay taxes here).

There is not some magical pool of capital that the City draws from to pay for public services. The city needs a tax base, or the pool runs dry. How do you maintain a tax base? You invest in it. Build things that promote business, not turn it away. Invest and create a city that is pro-business and incents mid-high income earners to want to live here. Like it or not, this is what creates money for public services...the money does not create itself.

You're missing the point entirely. The city collects its funds from the business owners via property taxes, not income. Would the property values of those businesses increase with increased traffic from a new arena? Most likely yes. Will they increase enough to offset the funds being pumped into the stadium? Most of the recent data in other cities suggests no.

Another question is, even with the increased revenue, will those businesses be able to remain afloat if/when the city dramatically raises their property taxes to make up for the money spent on the arena?

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Firebot

This is embarrassing. Calgary is being mocked by Edmonton of all places now because city council wants a free arena, while at the same time they want the Olympics back here.

OMG Edmonton is mocking us!!! Quick, lets pay for the whole damn thing!

[Toonage]

It would be like those losers in Edmonton to try and move an arena in one piece.

/s

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Of course. No denying the city won't have more resources for other local projects without pouring 200M into an arena.
Let's just not pretend the Flames are staying without it. ITTT. But that's OK too, as it seems to be the will of the people.

The Flames aren't going to stay and run charities, no. But that doesn't mean donors will be spending less on charity because the Flames are gone.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Who cares what she says? She sounds like a complete and utter moron and a shill for the Flames in that article.

Her quote about there being "no evidence" Nenshi wants an arena is based on the fact that he won't just "ger 'er done" like Bronc did. Ugh. . I get second hand embarrassment just reading that crap.

I think it is pretty obvious Nenshi wants a deal where the Flames pay for most of it and keeps the city's investment in the Flames to a minimum.

That doesn't make him anti-arena. That makes him pro-Flames paid arena and anti-taxpayer funded arena.

I'm no DCU fan, she live in my parents neighborhood, which is not in the ward she represents, and her house is dark every Halloween. But at a certain point you have to listen to what multiple people are saying, and you can't dismiss all those people as Flames shills. Just because Nenshi released his "vision" for an arena project doesn't mean it's actually a priority for him or something he sees as a necessity.

I don't know a whole lot about the EV CRL but if there's funding still available from it I don't know why that couldn't go to an arena. The area's made a lot of progress but I live downtown and there's no reason for me to ever go down there. An arena would be the capstone that area needs to truly be a draw for people around the city.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Honestly, who the F cares about the global reputation of this city because of it's sports teams.

People in Europe and asia don't care about the Flames or the Stampede. The economist certainly doesn't care about the Flames when they rated Calgary the 5th best place to live globally.

People don't care about the Trail Blazers when they talk about Portland, or Austin. People don't talk about going to Berlin or Paris because of Football; New York because of whatever team.

The association of sports teams to a City's reputation is such a small-town and backward view of what makes a city an attractive place to live and work.

Bingo. The concerts argument also kind of falls a little short in my eyes. Okay so we have less people leaving Calgary to go to Edmonton but where are the additional people coming in from? It's not like Eastern BC, Western Saskatchewan and Southern Alberta are massive untapped markets. If people think that this is going to be a massive boon for the local economy, then provide some numbers. Percentage-wise, how much will a new arena boost the local economy?

[Resolute 14]

Wait, we're supposed to feel bad about some doofus in Edmonton coming up with a lame joke involving their older, crappier arena?

[PsYcNeT]

Maybe Calgary would have more concert interest if people actually showed up for ones not starring Garth Brooks?

The turnout in this city to shows is almost pathetic considering our population size.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Cappy

What makes you think those restaurants wouldn't have been just as busy if Garth Brooks wasn't in town?

17th is always busy, so the claim that GB "pumped millions into the city" is suspect.

= substitution

Anecdotally (since people love that) I had a couple friends of mine come down from EDM to see Garth Brooks last weekend. They stayed in a hotel, ate at a 17th restaurant I recommended to them and then went to a 17th pub after. If they didn't come to Garth Brooks their money would've stayed in Fort Saskatchewan.

I think you're making the mistake of underestimating how many people come from out of the city to big concerts like these. Their money isn't going to businesses in Calgary unless they come to Calgary to see these concerts. It's tourism dollars that otherwise wouldn't be here. Not to mention the fact that Garth Brooks, his band, his entourage, etc all have to stay in hotels here too and eat at restaurants here as well.

It's kind of ridiculous that people are trying to dispute that big concerts bring money into the city.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

This is so stupid.

Sportsnet has the rights to broadcast all 82 flames games. If you think a loss of 36 national broadcasts would not at least jeopardize the deal as it currently exists I don't know what to tell you.

I get the feeling some of you don't read the contracts you sign as it's laughable to say a contract this significant and large such would he jeopardized if the Flames moved to the US. If the Phoenix team moves to Quebec do you think that jeopardizes the deal because Rogers can barely afford to make the current deal work for them? There is surely language in the contract to which the NHL and Rogers know exactly what to expect if Canada gains or loses a team and it's certainly not going to jeopardize the deal seeing the scenario has already been agreed on by both parties that signed the dotted line.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Wait, we're supposed to feel bad about some doofus in Edmonton coming up with a lame joke involving their older, crappier arena?

The gap in "niceness" between the Saddledome and Rexall place is at least as great as the gap between any new arena and the saddledome.

We are looking to replace the saddledome, why is a joke about offering to give us a much crappier arena funny?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Honestly, who the F cares about the global reputation of this city because of it's sports teams.

People in Europe and asia don't care about the Flames or the Stampede. The economist certainly doesn't care about the Flames when they rated Calgary the 5th best place to live globally.

Are you being dense? People come to Calgary in droves from Asia and Europe because of the Stampede in particular. Maybe you shouldn't be trying to speak for people you've never met and have no idea about. Try telling the European fans on this forum that no one in the world cares about the Flames.

Originally Posted by Cappy

People don't care about the Trail Blazers when they talk about Portland, or Austin. People don't talk about going to Berlin or Paris because of Football; New York because of whatever team.

Seriously how would you know? You're trying to set yourself up as an expert on what everyone in the world thinks. Preposterous.

Have more people in the world heard of Portland because of the Trailblazers? Yes, I think that's pretty obviously true.

Berlin, New York and Paris are world renowned cities on their own merits. Calgary is not. There is no parallel there.

Originally Posted by Cappy

The association of sports teams to a City's reputation is such a small-town and backward view of what makes a city an attractive place to live and work.

Believe what you will. Most people in the world wouldn't have heard of Calgary at all without the Flames and the Stampede. That's the reality. Have you travelled? Have you talked to people in various countries about Calgary? Doesn't sound like it.

The association of a sports team to a City's global reputation is obvious. There are lots of things that make a city an attractive place to live and work. I never said having a sports team was a major factor for most people. But even if its a minor factor for some small percentage of people its making a difference to the reputation. If you don't care about the reputation thats fine. If you don't care if people across the world have heard of Calgary or not that's your choice. Some people care, some don't. Don't try and pretend you know what everyone in the world thinks though, that's ridiculous.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Honestly, who the F cares about the global reputation of this city because of it's sports teams.

Companies wanting to possibly locate offices to Calgary. Life style matters to attracting quality employees, and access to sports and entertainment venues matter.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Maybe Calgary would have more concert interest if people actually showed up for ones not starring Garth Brooks?

The turnout in this city to shows is almost pathetic considering our population size.

Talk about sweeping generalizations. Maybe bring up some specific examples?

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by New Era

Companies wanting to possibly locate offices to Calgary. Life style matters to attracting quality employees, and access to sports and entertainment venues matter.

Companies like Amazon?

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Wait, we're supposed to feel bad about some doofus in Edmonton coming up with a lame joke involving their older, crappier arena?

To be fair, I LMAO at the joke. Really well done haha.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by New Era

Companies wanting to possibly locate offices to Calgary. Life style matters to attracting quality employees, and access to sports and entertainment venues matter.

We always take out of town customer to Flames games. It's definitely a plus for local businesses that frequently have out of town visitors. Stuff like this also leaves a good impression of the city on visitors as otherwise they may be coming back from a cold winter visit to the city saying there was nothing to do or boring city, etc. I get that some people are against the public money but it's pretty hard to deny the Flames have a positive impact on the city in a lot of ways.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Companies like Amazon?

Yes, exactly. Now take away the only major league team, and a city that is not on the map for major concert events, and what do you have? A bigger version of Regina.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Are you being dense? People come to Calgary in droves from Asia and Europe because of the Stampede in particular. Maybe you shouldn't be trying to speak for people you've never met and have no idea about. Try telling the European fans on this forum that no one in the world cares about the Flames.



Seriously how would you know? You're trying to set yourself up as an expert on what everyone in the world thinks. Preposterous.

Have more people in the world heard of Portland because of the Trailblazers? Yes, I think that's pretty obviously true.

Berlin, New York and Paris are world renowned cities on their own merits. Calgary is not. There is no parallel there.



Believe what you will. Most people in the world wouldn't have heard of Calgary at all without the Flames and the Stampede. That's the reality. Have you travelled? Have you talked to people in various countries about Calgary? Doesn't sound like it.

The association of a sports team to a City's global reputation is obvious. There are lots of things that make a city an attractive place to live and work. I never said having a sports team was a major factor for most people. But even if its a minor factor for some small percentage of people its making a difference to the reputation. If you don't care about the reputation thats fine. If you don't care if people across the world have heard of Calgary or not that's your choice. Some people care, some don't. Don't try and pretend you know what everyone in the world thinks though, that's ridiculous.

Ok buddy, calm down.

For all the talk about me speaking for other people and cities you are doing the exact same thing. You have the same anecdotal evidence about the attendance at the Stampede, the recognition of cities, and what people know of Calgary.

And before you start personally attacking me on my travel history, give your GD head a shake. I have lived in Europe and traveled extensively in Asia.

No one says one GD thing about the stampede or the Flames, and better yet, they are not travelling to Calgary to see them play.

You are re-hashing the "world class" moniker that Ken King hilarious tried to peddle to the masses when CalgaryNext was first introduced. It was laughed out of town to the point he doesn't even bother with the argument anymore.