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Old 01-27-2022, 11:19 AM   #1041
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We agree on a point I never made nor was advocating? Yeah, cool.
You said “another valuable asset”. And then listed two, one of which was not a valuable asset and the other for whom Treliving had a trade in place. And, as mentioned while he was a good player, Brodie wasn’t irreplaceable. You were acting like this is an issue Treliving regularly has. There’s just not a whole lot of evidence for it.
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Old 01-27-2022, 11:29 AM   #1042
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I say just sit back, relax, and enjoy the season. Players sometimes become free agents. It's not a Flames thing or a Treliving thing. There is absolutely nothing unique about this situation. The team will just have to adapt with the cards they get dealt. This is something that every team has to deal with, especially teams that actually have players that are worth a damn. You can't trade them when the team is competitive just because you are afraid they will walk. Teams that do that are always in a constant rebuild and never achieve anything.
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Old 01-27-2022, 11:30 AM   #1043
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How many elite players have the Flames had? They have had 2 at most since Iggy left and those are the 2 guys this thread is about. I guess Gio was elite but he also was lost for nothing (albeit no one would disagree that was the wrong call to let him go)
If we're using Chel terminology, Iggy was "Franchise".

Gaudreau and Tkachuk are certainly "Elite", as was Giordano for a short period of time.
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Old 01-27-2022, 11:45 AM   #1044
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You said “another valuable asset”. And then listed two, one of which was not a valuable asset and the other for whom Treliving had a trade in place. And, as mentioned while he was a good player, Brodie wasn’t irreplaceable. You were acting like this is an issue Treliving regularly has. There’s just not a whole lot of evidence for it.
Not going to get into a semantical debate with you about the word value but yes a top four with the ability to play top two and a bottom guy with the ability to play top four are valuable pieces at the trade deadline. Gaudreau is a much more valuable piece.

Curtis Glencross and Kris Russell were valuable trade chips that Treliving turned into a multiple draft picks. These picks add up especially when our GM as been loose with using them in trades out. Just being things have different levels of value doesn't mean the most expensive piece in the collection is the only one that matters

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Treliving had a trade in place
One trade, that didn't happen.
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Old 01-27-2022, 12:01 PM   #1045
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Not going to get into a semantical debate with you about the word value but yes a top four with the ability to play top two and a bottom guy with the ability to play top four are valuable pieces at the trade deadline. Gaudreau is a much more valuable piece.

Curtis Glencross and Kris Russell were valuable trade chips that Treliving turned into a multiple draft picks. These picks add up especially when our GM as been loose with using them in trades out. Just being things have different levels of value doesn't mean the most expensive piece in the collection is the only one that matters


One trade, that didn't happen.
Oh good Lord. Now you think Treliving should have been in sell mode that year like he was when he got rid of Russell and Glencross? You think he should have moved Brodie and Hamonic for picks in 2019-20? When the Flames thought they had a shot to go somewhere in the POs? Who was going to play D again?

Nah, what happened was that Hamonic was let go and his cap space was used for someone the team needed more, and Brodie chose where he wanted to play (he could have returned). As it ended up, Markstrom/Tanev > Brodie/Hamonic.
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Old 01-27-2022, 12:04 PM   #1046
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I admire that you are rigid in your beliefs but what Treliving wants no longer matters as this all comes down to do with what the Gaudreau camp wants as they hold all the leverage now. Nobody really knows where he's leaning but if he decides to go close to home there is nothing Treliving or the Flames can do about it. Outside of some massive 8 year contract offer that not even teams like the Flyers will match, Gaudreau's future is out of Treliving's hands.
And you honestly think BT is so incompetent he would allow things to get this far if he thought there was any chance Gaudreau was going to go UFA? I am not buying it.
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Old 01-27-2022, 12:10 PM   #1047
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Oh good Lord. Now you think Treliving should have been in sell mode that year like he was when he got rid of Russell and Glencross? You think he should have moved Brodie and Hamonic for picks in 2019-20? When the Flames thought they had a shot to go somewhere in the POs? Who was going to play D again?

Nah, what happened was that Hamonic was let go and his cap space was used for someone the team needed more, and Brodie chose where he wanted to play (he could have returned). As it ended up, Markstrom/Tanev > Brodie/Hamonic.
Treliving puts himself in this position. Flames keep their own rentals after trading a stupid amount of picks for one of those.

End of the day what has Brad done to instill any confidence he is going to make this work? He squeezed Johnny and Tkachuk to missing parts or all of camp before getting their deals done and has just allowed them to gain all the leverage.

I can understand why people are concerned because our GM has been mediocre at best over the last 3 years.

Flames were on the bubble the last 2 deadlines and sat on their hands. 3 of their top 4 D left with no return during that time it is a fact. Lucky for them they had 2 internal guys step up and used free agency to solve the other problem.

They do not have the same option for the forwards. The best 2 players they have had could be lost for nothing soon. No internal replacement or free agent that is going to come in. In addition almost all the key free agents for 22 have extended with their teams and now Johnny is the clear top guy.

Maybe it works out but Trelviing has not done much of anything to instill confidence in the fans that he has this under control.
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Old 01-27-2022, 12:13 PM   #1048
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And you honestly think BT is so incompetent he would allow things to get this far if he thought there was any chance Gaudreau was going to go UFA? I am not buying it.
This is my belief as well, but man I selfishly want that contract signed today Because if he does leave as a free agent, I’m going have some serious doubts about this franchise
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Old 01-27-2022, 12:13 PM   #1049
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And you honestly think BT is so incompetent he would allow things to get this far if he thought there was any chance Gaudreau was going to go UFA? I am not buying it.
I think he is.

I think Brad can’t sell a rebuild to the owners and is sticking with the guys he has but I think there is a legit chance this is the only run with this team. Darryl steps away, Johnny walks, Chucky is traded and the rebuild starts with someone new. If that happens it sure would suck to have the best player in the last 7 years on the team to be lost for nothing.

I have been trying to remain positive here but no doubt there is a ton of risk and based on what Brad has done over the last few years I am far from confident he is in control of this situation.
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Old 01-27-2022, 12:17 PM   #1050
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Treliving puts himself in this position. Flames keep their own rentals after trading a stupid amount of picks for one of those.

End of the day what has Brad done to instill any confidence he is going to make this work? He squeezed Johnny and Tkachuk to missing parts or all of camp before getting their deals done and has just allowed them to gain all the leverage.

I can understand why people are concerned because our GM has been mediocre at best over the last 3 years.

Flames were on the bubble the last 2 deadlines and sat on their hands. 3 of their top 4 D left with no return during that time it is a fact. Lucky for them they had 2 internal guys step up and used free agency to solve the other problem.

They do not have the same option for the forwards. The best 2 players they have had could be lost for nothing soon. No internal replacement or free agent that is going to come in. In addition almost all the key free agents for 22 have extended with their teams and now Johnny is the clear top guy.

Maybe it works out but Trelviing has not done much of anything to instill confidence in the fans that he has this under control.
Man, so much narrative and no evidence. Yes, the Hamonic trade was bad. So Treliving should trade him for picks in the midst of a PO run? I bet you hated Hamonic when he was here and now you’re upset he was let go. Who exactly wanted him as a rental again?

This is a lot of hand wringing over something that the team doesn’t have a history of doing for its top players.
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Old 01-27-2022, 12:21 PM   #1051
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Man, so much narrative and no evidence. Yes, the Hamonic trade was bad. So Treliving should trade him for picks in the midst of a PO run? I bet you hated Hamonic when he was here and now you’re upset he was let go. Who exactly wanted him as a rental again?

This is a lot of hand wringing over something that the team doesn’t have a history of doing for its top players.
So the evidence that 3 of their top 4 D over the last 2 offseason a were lost for nothing is all narrative?

The fact this team was on the bubble and no where near a playoff lock the last 2 years is a narrative as well?
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Old 01-27-2022, 12:31 PM   #1052
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So the evidence that 3 of their top 4 D over the last 2 offseason a were lost for nothing is all narrative?

The fact this team was on the bubble and no where near a playoff lock the last 2 years is a narrative as well?
No the narrative is that Treliving is sitting on his hands doing nothing. You have no idea what deals were offered, what trades were explored (aside from the one that he actually did agree to).

But “3 of their top 4 D lost for nothing” is a pretty simplistic take. Hamonic wasn’t wanted and was essentially just cut, and his cap space used elsewhere. He was more valuable to a “bubble team” trying to make the POs as a player than as a bunch of picks. And Gio was taken in expansion. Perhaps you’d rather he was protected over Kylington? No one was going to trade for him the year before - he wasn’t a rental and whoever got him would have probably had to expose him as well.
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Old 01-27-2022, 12:36 PM   #1053
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Flames D right now is better than it has been in years
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Old 01-27-2022, 12:39 PM   #1054
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If we lose Johnny to UFA for nothing, i don't see how Treliving keeps his job.
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Old 01-27-2022, 12:46 PM   #1055
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If we lose Johnny to UFA for nothing, i don't see how Treliving keeps his job.
Simple. It's a process.
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Old 01-27-2022, 01:13 PM   #1056
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If we lose Johnny to UFA for nothing, i don't see how Treliving keeps his job.
If the Flames win the cup in the mean time does it change your mind?
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Old 01-27-2022, 01:19 PM   #1057
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And you honestly think BT is so incompetent he would allow things to get this far if he thought there was any chance Gaudreau was going to go UFA? I am not buying it.
Well things have got this far and unless there's some sort of gentleman's agreement in place, I'm not sure how Treliving could feel overly confident that it's in the bag. I'm sure when the Islanders were in the exact same situation with Tavares they thought they had a good chance at retaining him until he decided otherwise.
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Old 01-27-2022, 01:31 PM   #1058
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Well things have got this far and unless there's some sort of gentleman's agreement in place, I'm not sure how Treliving could feel overly confident that it's in the bag. I'm sure when the Islanders were in the exact same situation with Tavares they thought they had a good chance at retaining him until he decided otherwise.
Funnily enough, IIRC dissentowner swore up and down at the time that there was no way Tavares was leaving the Islanders via free agency either.
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Old 01-27-2022, 01:46 PM   #1059
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Let them walk and then sign all the 28-32 year old Middle 6 Wingers on the market.
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Old 01-27-2022, 01:56 PM   #1060
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No the narrative is that Treliving is sitting on his hands doing nothing. You have no idea what deals were offered, what trades were explored (aside from the one that he actually did agree to).

But “3 of their top 4 D lost for nothing” is a pretty simplistic take. Hamonic wasn’t wanted and was essentially just cut, and his cap space used elsewhere. He was more valuable to a “bubble team” trying to make the POs as a player than as a bunch of picks. And Gio was taken in expansion. Perhaps you’d rather he was protected over Kylington? No one was going to trade for him the year before - he wasn’t a rental and whoever got him would have probably had to expose him as well.
The bolded is a total strawman. We don't know what he is doing so people are basing their opinions on what has been accomplished to date, simple as that.
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