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Old 09-05-2021, 08:48 PM   #1
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Ok, sue me, I like to write about this stuff.

Babylon 5 was always described as the last best hope for peace. When it first came out it was described as the best hope for an interesting SciFi series without the name Star Trek attached to it. Its hard to describe this show though without talking about its obvious Star Trek connections. Walter Koeing as the villainous Bester, a rogue psicop. Writers like DC Fontana and Harlan Ellison who cut their teeth on the original series. And various recognizable Trek guest stars.

I've only gotten through season 1, and there's always that fear that the first season is going to be boring or barely watchable as the writers and actors figure things out.

But this series while it didn't start with a bang, or go into deep story mode until the end of the first season had some really interesting story moments in it. As you watched the show you could feel the first season building up to it as the writers put throwaways in that you forget about until the very last episode. The first appearances by the Shadows happened in a stand alone episode about Centauri powerplays. The Vorlon's interference and their later movement to villainy was hinted at. The after shocks of the Battle of the Line, the appearance of the Shadow agent Mr Mordon. They were all linked together in a first series of 22 episodes.

There was no real overarching theme in the first season, but there was a hint with the third rule of sentient species being the ability to sacrifice. But other then that it followed the crew of a huge space station with the usual problems that you would see in a large city. Crime, diplomacy, intrigue. Hints of the Earth Alliance breaking up along anti-alien extremism. But you never can really grasp what's going on behind the scenes as the players are meanuevered into position.

The acting was tremendously solid, with Michael O'Haire, Jerry Doyle (RIP to both) and Claudia Christian as the main character. But they are ably backed up by Mira Furlan, who we lost earlier this year, Andreas Katsulas and Peter Jurasik who all put in amazing work. In the background you get Andrea Thompson, Stephen First and Bill Mumy ably adding depth to the series.

The effects are absolutely dated, but we have to remember that this was one of the first series to go full CGI instead of using minatures and mat painting. As the series went on, the effects improved sharply, but there was still a almost feel of 2d instead of 3d in this show.

There were some very good episodes in this first series. Mind War introduces Bester and the PsiCorps who will grow to become a major player later. Sky Full of Stars covers what happened at the battle of the line for Sinclair. Babylon Squared which was a huge lore building episode around the vanishing of Babylon 4, and finally Chrysallis.

Chrysallis is the last episode of Season 1 and completely jumpstarts the series into the storylines that will take us over the next four years. From the favor given to Mollari which results in the extermination of a Narn Military base and the introduction of the Shadows. To the coupe that leads to the rise of President Clarke who becomes a primary villain in this series to the changes in Delann.

Overall to me it was a fun and enjoyable watch and it sets things up so well for the next four years of my binge watch.
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Old 09-05-2021, 10:54 PM   #2
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A series that I've been meaning to re-watch, but haven't found the time. Jurasik and Katsulas made the series for me. It was their performances that would make a remake difficult, because that is hard to reproduce.

It might not work with this series, because there is a lot to cover, but it would be interesting to watch a one and done series as a group, Odyssey 5 or Space Above and Beyond, at one show a week and then discuss here in depth. It would be a first time through for most people. It would be interesting in getting into the minutiae of performances, writing and effects. Perhaps a thought for another time.

In the meantime, Babylon 5 is definitely a worthy subject.
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Old 09-06-2021, 12:06 PM   #3
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I love Babylon 5. The twist of what the Shadow war truly is awesome IMO.

Unfortunately they thought the series was going to be cancelled after Season 4. I think that screwed up Season 5 immensely and made it the worst season. They ended a lot of story lines in Season 4 and Season 5 had to start up some new ones and it came off as slow and more political as the alliance is in it's infancy. Worse than Season 1 in many ways.

The last episode in Season 4 was meant to be the last episode of the series BTW in case you are wondering about it's weird placement.


Also interesting is that Straczynski claimed that Paramount executives used some of the ideas from the concept of Babylon 5 he pitched to them in the late 80s to develop Deep Space Nine, which is viewed as one of the best Trek series.

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Old 09-08-2021, 04:52 PM   #4
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I started a rewatch of Babylon 5 last year when the HD remaster came out and it didn't live up to my memory. There was a lot more filler than I recalled but that's something you didn't notice when you only watched one episode a week back then.

When you have all the episodes available to you, there is too much temptation to just skip to the next episode if you aren't engrossed in the current one immediately.

With the recent Straczynski reveals about the mental health issues around Michael O'Hare, I did spend a lot more time focusing on his arc and episodes this time around.

I agree that when they thought they were facing cancellation, they squeezed in the abrupt conclusion of the Shadow War a season too early but at least they made that effort whereas other shows didn't at all and left you hanging.

I kind of want to watch a version of Babylon 5 with the crew of the pilot episode. They only had one episode with her but I liked Laurel Takashima a lot more than Ivanova this time around.

The series budget limitations are also interesting to see, you didn't notice it so much back then but literally this 5 mile long space station seemed to have the command and control center the size of your home bathroom.

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Old 09-08-2021, 05:02 PM   #5
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It could have been a lot better had they had an extra half-season to spend on the war. Season 5 should have been the campaign for Earth. I did re-watch this a while back and I used a curated version to skip the episodes that weren't necessary and it was considerably better. Still watched probably half of the episodes in seasons 1-4, and basically all of season 4.

I still think War Without End is better executed than just about any sci fi story in the 90's considering what they had to do to make all the pieces fit.
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Old 09-08-2021, 07:50 PM   #6
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As I recall, the visual Effects were rendered on Amigas and composited using newTek video toasters (add on for amigas).

That’s why I watched the show when it came out. But it had lots of heart, and cool mysteries and political schemes. Great show!

Is it streaming somewhere?
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Old 09-08-2021, 10:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hack&Lube View Post
I started a rewatch of Babylon 5 last year when the HD remaster came out and it didn't live up to my memory. There was a lot more filler than I recalled but that's something you didn't notice when you only watched one episode a week back then.

When you have all the episodes available to you, there is too much temptation to just skip to the next episode if you aren't engrossed in the current one immediately.

With the recent Straczynski reveals about the mental health issues around Michael O'Hare, I did spend a lot more time focusing on his arc and episodes this time around.

I agree that when they thought they were facing cancellation, they squeezed in the abrupt conclusion of the Shadow War a season too early but at least they made that effort whereas other shows didn't at all and left you hanging.

I kind of want to watch a version of Babylon 5 with the crew of the pilot episode. They only had one episode with her but I liked Laurel Takashima a lot more than Ivanova this time around.

The series budget limitations are also interesting to see, you didn't notice it so much back then but literally this 5 mile long space station seemed to have the command and control center the size of your home bathroom.

I recently watched that interview about poor Michael O'Hare and how hard the producers of the series tried to help him and got him help.
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Old 09-28-2021, 10:14 AM   #8
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He wrote the vast majority of the award-winning show himself, and it appears he may be about to do it again — Warner Bros. Television is now in development on a “from-the-ground-up reboot” of Babylon 5 with Straczynski as writer and showrunner, designed to air on the CW.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/27/2...er-bros-the-cw
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Old 09-28-2021, 10:22 AM   #9
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I don't know if we need a reboot of the series, because it was so well done in the first place. And Crusades and the other movies covered everything else.



I would love to see them do a series on the first shadow war but the problem is that it would remove humans from the mix.
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Old 09-28-2021, 02:15 PM   #10
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It looks like it's going to start with Sheridan arriving at the station, and build around an entirely new cast. I would guess that he wants to do something similar to what Battlestar did, where the brushstrokes are there, but the tone and heavy lifting goes in another direction. For example, G'Kar and Londo have a pretty complicated relationship. They start in one place and land in another, and that will still occur, but everything inbetween will change.

I would also guess that standalone episodes would be nixed. Everything would link.
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Old 09-28-2021, 02:36 PM   #11
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Having it air on the CW worries me a bit.
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Old 11-21-2021, 06:03 PM   #12
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so it took a while due to life being busy but I finished the second season of Babylon 5. While the first season focused on character and lore development and hinted at the coming war, the best way to describe the second season was the opening steps of the coming darkness. Or, the year where all hell breaks loose.

Its not the special effects that makes Babylon 5 special, the series is about 27 years old so the effects look like 90's era computer graphics. The backgrounds and the set pieces are a combination of matte paintings and computer graphics so for the most part it looks like the game Wing Commander 3. But everything else sets this series apart from other science fiction and it still stands out as one of the best Science Fiction series ever made. From the dialogue to the strong acting by the main cast, to the writing, you buy into this series and hang onto your finger nails through the whole season.

Basically the premise is that the Shadows are coming, they are one of the old races and had fought a war of near annihilation 10,000 years ago. And now they were returning. But instead of being a open and clear enemy, they work in the background. They partner with the Centuri to beat the Narn in a war that lead to the near destruction of the Narn Homeworld. They manipulate other races and events.

At the same time there are other aspects of this season that stand out. The Earth Government has been taken over by facists in league with the Psi Corp. We see the rise of Nightwatch, and nazi like organization that encourages humans spying on humans to tamp down sedition and discontent. We see the start of the Mars rebellion, the forming of an unofficial underground railroad to smuggle out telepathic, and a uneasy alliance between the new Captain of Babylon 5 John Sheridan and the Minbari and Vorlons, another of the old ones.

But the season doesn't feel over cluttered, the writers and creators made everything fit together flawlessly and logically, and that's the real strength of Babylon 5.

Sadly Babylon 5 was forced to replace the original Captain Jeffrey Sinclair, because of Michael O'Hare's mental health struggles that lead to his death. But Bruce Boxleitner was a great choice as he bought humor and casualness to the role that was lacking before. The cast was smooth and comfortable in their roles. The characters themselves were for the most part very humor with issues and moments that make you really care about them as characters.

While some things could have been done better, for example the departure of Talia Winters as Andrea Thompson departed over her contract and role was done in a rush and didn't feel satisfying. The background or supporting characters. Vir and Mr Mordon and Warren Keiffer (Robert Russler played my favorite video game of all time as the psychotic overman Seether in Wing Commander 3) really added strength to this show.

Stand out episodes

Soul Mates - A stand alone episode that features Londo deciding which of his three wives he's going to keep. It was designed to show the humanity of Londo. But there was great comedy in the episode.

The coming of the shadows - We see the death of the Centari Emperor who wanted to apologize to the Narn for their actions in the last war. instead we see the strengthening of the business relationship between Londo and the Shadows, and the start of the new Narn Centari war.

In the Shadow of Z'ha'dom - We learn about what happened to Sheridan's wife. Its a great lore episode in that we learn the history of the last Shadow War and the story of the first ones. At the end of the episode Sheridan faces the same moral question as Churchill did when he allowed Coventry to be bombed to hide that fact that the allies had broken the Enigma Code.

The Long Twilight Struggle - The brutal end of the Narn Centari war and Londo selling his sole for power. It also featured one of the greatest speeches in Sci Fi history to me.

Comes the Inquisitor - Kosh sends an inquisitor to see if Delenn can be trusted in the coming war. The reveal of who the inquisitor is and why he was "appointed" was simply awesome.

The Fall of the Night - An absolutely awesome episode that shows that Earth is under the control of a corrupt President, Night Watch and the Psicorp. It continues the expansion of the war by the Centari and Earth appeases the Centari, which puts in in direct conflict with Sheridan.

The opening always talks about Babylon 5 being built as the best great hope for peace. At the end of it Ivanova in her monologue at the end foreshadows whats to come.

Quote:
Cmdr. Susan Ivanova: It was the end of the Earth year 2259, and the war was upon us. As anticipated, a few days after the Earth-Centauri treaty was announced, the Centauri widened their war to include many of the Non-Aligned Worlds. And there was another war brewing closer to home. A personal one whose cost would be higher than any of us could imagine. We came to this place because Babylon 5 was our last, best hope for peace. By the end of 2259, we knew that it had failed. But in so doing, it became something greater. As the war expanded, it became our last, best hope for victory. Because sometimes peace is another word for surrender, and because secrets have a way of getting out

Oh and that best moment for me in any series. After the surrender of the Narn. G'Kar is stripped of his ambassador ship to Babylon 5 and makes a final speech to the advisory council.





Other awesome moments






Centari attack the Narn Homeworld using surface bombardment


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Old 11-29-2021, 08:40 AM   #13
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I just finished season 3.

This was a unique season in TV history due to the show creator JMS writing the whole season and every single episode. By doing this he created a really good logical flow to the season and advanced things.

You have to feel sorry for the crew of Babylon 5, from the breaking away from Earth after an uprising against the Earth Dome government in a coup by President Clark, to the erupting of the Shadow War as Sheridan brings together the minor races to fight the Shadows who are now openly acting. To Doctor Franklins addiction to Sims and the myriad of major problems on the Station with the NightWatch, Earths almost gestapo organization.

Because of that the pace of the whole season is incredibly brisk, with very few espisodes that are purely standalone. This is why this show is considered one of the best sci fi series even to this day.

From a pure lore standpoint a lot gets established. the fascinating reasons for the Shadow War, the role of the Vorlons and the death of Kosh. The open battle between Babylon 5 and Earth Force. The role of Babylon 5 in the Shadow War that was fought a 1000 years ago and the creation of Valin and almost god like figure in Mimbari religion. We also get so learn more about the Shadows with Sheridan traveling to their home world.

The effects took a major step forward. The battle scenes move with a great deal of speed and are a bit chaotic on purpose. The background and space based sets and CGI because a lot less jarring starting with the Battle of Babylon 5. While it still doesn't stand up to shows like the Expanse of lets say the Mandalorian. For its time this was probably state of the art.

The crew is incredibly strong, and they're now comfortable in their roles. The acting and dialogue is strong and natural. Even the background characters who are in and out put in really strong performances.

At the end, the season ends with multiple cliff hangers. Sheridan is caught in a explosion on the Shadow home world, one caused by self sacrifice. Garibaldi is missing and the last thing that we see is his capture by the Shadows. You feel real jeopardy and it feels like everything is falling apart, though the alliance has had several key victories.

The DVDs for season 3 is filled with extra's including a hilarious blooper real. But there are tons of goodies that show the behind the scenes effects work, as well as files on key personal and technology.

Next up, Season 4.


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Old 12-05-2021, 05:19 PM   #14
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Completed season 4.

Its interesting because in the end it did feel like the series was wrapped up. The Shadow war was finished half way through, and the earth civil war at the end of the season. When you look at the creation of the series JMS figured they were done, but they were moved to TNT for a 5th and final season. Because of that the season 5 ending episode had been filmed at the end of season 4 but held off til the end of the series.

Overall this was the best season in the series, the effects and the battles looked awesome, the cast was incredibly good and the acting even better, so many key players got great storylines. From Franklin's addiction issues to Garibaldi being reprogrammed by Psycorp to betray Sheridan, to Lyta's growth as a telepath.

While the shadow war ending was a bit of a surprise as it wasn't a battle between good and evil but a battle between two guardian races who's only goal was to strengthen and evolve life in their own way. The Shadows believed that war and chaos supported evolution, the Vorlons believed in order and dicipline. In the end the war came down to the younger races choosing their own way and the 1st ones left the galaxy to them.

The Earth Civil war was far darker with the deprivations of President Clarke, the Psycops and Night watch. In that we got awesome battles and awesome moments. We got moments of huge heartbreak as Marcus sacrificed himself to save Ivanova. We got betrayals, and of course the insanity of Clarke.

We also got subplots, with the more regular appearances of the absolutely best villain ever in Alan Bester as he fought a shadow war against non telepaths. We had Londo plotting the death of the Centuri insane Emperor and we had the Mimbari civil war between the Warrior Caste and the Religious Cast.

What this created was a whole season without a single throw away episode, every episode mattered and was chock full of plot. Even episodes like the Sheridan interrogation with featured Sheridan and his interrogators but featured no other main characters was hugely important.

In the end though we had an entire shift of the galaxy. There was a new interstellar alliance that featured technology sharing and free trade and the Rangers as peacekeepers that encompassed all of the races of the Galaxy. We also in the narration at the end of episode 24 which seemed like a sum up of the season a dark future that featured a telepath war, a war against the Drakh the former servants of the Shadows and even fractures in the Alliance. But in a present sense it was almost a happy ending.

Which leads to the final episode which was amazingly well done and featured a human a million years in the future reviewing the history and effects of the alliance, including an earth that had fought a civil war and literally bombed themselves back to the stone age. In the end we saw that humans had become like the Vorlons abandoned their physical body and moved in encounter suits.

I've read that season 5 isn't great and wanders quite a bit, but I'll watch it anyways and then move onto the movies and the series Crusader which I've never seen.

But I still think that this series holds up as one of the best science fiction series in TV history. Its smart, moves at a breakneck pace and has great characters and great dialogue. While the initial effects didn't hold up well they really came into their own in season 5. The background of the lights coming on illuminating the station in the darkness of space is awesome to see. Its also easy with the sets and extras to believe that you're witnessing a story taking place in a station occupied by a quarter of a million souls.

In terms of the extra's its a little less then the previous seasons, with documentaries on makeup and key plot points, as well as the usual database of characters places and things. The gag reel is well worth the watch as well.

Next up Season 5.
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Old 12-11-2021, 06:49 PM   #15
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Well, I've come to the end of Season 5 and the end of the Babylon 5 series. While I still have multiple movies in the pack and the Crusader series to watch, it was a bit sad to come to the end of this series.

Now I could grouse and sound like my Grandpa "Gods damnit they don't make Sci Fi like this anymore", and to an extent it would be true. Going back and watching this, you realize how strong of a series this one. While Deep Space 9 and Babylon 5 can argue that they ripped each other off, they both had similar strengths, a little draggy at the start, incredibly strong in the middle, but where it differs is that DS9's final season was very strong. Babylon 5 in its 5th season had its strengths but it truly felt like what it was a surprise. The truth is if you watch the end of season 4, it was the end of the series. The Shadows and Vorlon's were gone, President Clarke deposed, we even got a nice summary narration. So season 5 struggled a bit. But it did have its strengths. While Season 5 did a great job of wrapping up any loose ends, it also presented questions for the future, the coming telephath wars, the Drakh conquest of Mimbari, it basically stated, while the major wars were over, there was no guarantee of peace.

We saw some nice storylines. Garibaldi's struggle with alcholism (Sadly he died of that years later), Lyta's growing powers, her hatred of psicorp and her radicalization. G'Kar's religious journey and the sad fate of Londo Molari. We had a telepath rebellion on the station. We saw the end of the Centuri Empire and the fractures of the Alliance. But in the end most of the stories linked to the people in the series were summed up nicely.

There was also the nice emotional touch over the last few episodes. The characters didn't stick around, they each got their own exits. G'Kar and Lyta left the station on a quest for knowledge. Franklin left for Earth, Garibaldi and his wife went to Mars, Londo returned to his home world and Sheridan and Delann went to their new home on Mimbar.

The final episode was simple, and poigent, as we saw Sheridan simply stop, we saw one final reunion and a toast to friends long gone. We saw Babylon 5 the last of the Babylon stations blown up. Then in the end we saw an ISN news broadcast announcing Sheridan's death and the destruction of the Babylon 5 station, and then they thanked the people who made this documentary possible and showed the entire production crew. A really nice touch.

Effects wise it was clear that the last year was done on the cheap. While there were battles in pace they weren't as large or epic as the previous seasons and some of the sets felt smaller. Instead they focused on the story.


When you sit there and rank science fiction series, Babylon 5 to me has to sit near the top. Not because of the effects (Though later on they were very good). Or the music, or even the acting, though this cast was amazing. It was because someone took the time to write a story that went from start to conclusion and there was little room for random throw away stuff. Everything in this series that you see counted and was revisited or talked about years down the road.

Its sad when you look at this crew of actors and how amazing they were and how soon we lost them, most of them fairly young.

Mira Furlan earlier this year, Stephen Furst, Richard Biggs, Andreas Katsulas, Jerry Doyle, Joff Conaway and Michael O'hara among the others.

I think I'll go through the four movies and then try to tackle Crusader later.
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Old 12-12-2021, 07:43 AM   #16
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I remember watching this series with a bunch of friends from start to finish when it was fairly new, and while I wouldn't call myself a fan by any stretch, the storytelling of the series has in retrospect been quite influential in much of the writing I've done ever since. (Mostly various RPG and larp stuff.)

B5 was the first genuine sci-fi epic outside of books, with grand themes explored from top to bottom with long-form storytelling, complex characters and a large universe that was genuinely changing and evolving, as the various interconnected stories progressed over a long period of time.

Pre-B5, most TV worlds were relatively static. Long-term character development might pop up here or there, there were recurring storylines and the occasional even that shook something up a little, but at this time the idea that you should watch earlier episodes to understand what was going on in a series was not really a thing.

(Sure you had soaps that had developing plotlines, but of course mostly everything just went round and round, and later on the plotlines would actively rely on the audiences ignoring any possible long-term implications of previous events.)

As a simple example, years after B5, Firefly episodes were shown out of order by the network because the people in power, and most TV audiences to be honest, didn't actually think it mattered.

At the time B5's storytelling was really quite unique, and while it wasn't a massive commercial success, I would argue that it's an overlooked milestone in television history and has probably had a lot more influence on what TV is now than it gets credit for.

After B5 ended you have Buffy the Vampire slayer pushing the envelope on what can be done with character arcs and themes in network television storytelling and Sopranos breaking ground in "prestige television" in numerous ways, but both still take place in worlds that are, for the most part, relatively small and unchanging from episode to episode.

It wasn't really until Battlestar Galactica a few years later that you had another series that genuinely started doing what B5 had done, changing the status quo of the storyworld in massive ways during the run of the series, and in ways that are IMO obviously very heavily influenced by B5.

Despite it's limited budget, B5 creates a big world with massive events that affect everything, things you can't come back from or ignore in anything that happens since, and that just wasn't a thing that was done.

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Old 12-12-2021, 10:42 AM   #17
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After seeing the pilot I hadn't been impressed enough to watch the rest. Then just by coincidence I caught a later episode on TV (I think early season 3) and was blown away and got totally hooked. Back in those days it was a lot harder to catch up with missed episodes but eventually I was able to watch the entire series and it remains one of my all-time favourite shows.
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Old 12-12-2021, 09:48 PM   #18
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I want to add that beyond the normal cast they had some really great recurring characters in this series.



Mr Morden, who worked for the Shadows pushing forward their agenda. He just played slimy and vicious so well, and his ending was well done.


Al Bester the Psicop, He could be charming, had some of the best one liners in the series, but hated normal non telepaths, believed that Telephaths were the next step in human evolution and completely believed in Psicorp. But just when you had him figured out, he would show a crack of humanity. They had a great send off for him with a stand alone episode of a day in the life of Bester.
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Old 02-11-2022, 05:14 PM   #19
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The reboot has been pushed back to 2023 with the CW for sale:
https://www.patreon.com/posts/62084557
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Old 06-16-2023, 07:14 AM   #20
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We get an animated series on August 15

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