[Rumour] Majority of Flames players did not like Hamilton, Brouwer or the coaching staff

[Erick Estrada]

I don't know how anyone could hate Gulutzan. He's a nice guy and the kind of person you would want as your neighbor or friend. I do believe that players over time lost belief in his personnel decisions and systems which was probably a big reason their play just fell off the map down the stretch as there's only many times you can tell someone to hammer a square peg into a round hole before they toss the hammer and say "I'm done with this!".

I mentioned as much in the Brouwer thread earlier this morning that players are human and I'm sure plenty of players questioned why he got a letter on his jersey and his deployment on the first line or powerplay unit.

The Hamilton stuff is harder because there's nothing we can judge from his play on the ice that could draw any conclusions to his likeability in the room as he seemed to be the biggest joker which isn't what you normally see from a person that isn't' fitting in.

Lastly the source got this information from "chatting with someone in the organization?" I hear that stuff a lot and IMO it's probably 3rd hand stuff that may or may not be true so I take this with a grain of salt.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't know how anyone could hate Gulutzan. He's a nice guy and the kind of person you would want as your neighbor or friend. I do believe that players over time lost belief in his personnel decisions and systems which was probably a big reason their play just fell off the map down the stretch as there's only many times you can tell someone to hammer a square peg into a round hole before they toss the hammer and say "I'm done with this!".

Someone being ineffectual can drive you to hate them. Especially someone who is an authority figure over you and, at least in your view, is impeding success. Like the boss can be a good guy who brings in coffees, takes people for beers, and gives good christmas gifts. But if he's driving the company into the ground, you still might hate him.

I've had coaches like this for sure, where the players just end up laughing at them. The throwing the stick moment would have been a jump the shark moment for me as a player.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I have an open mind on Peters and really hope he'll be good but IMO you are understating the elephant in the room. Junior success and WHC success pale in comparison to zero for 4 in making the NHL playoffs. It's not that he hasn't had a lot of NHL success He hasn't had any in four seasons as a head coach. That is going to be the talking point until he gets a team into the playoffs.

I agree. But I think the strong emphasis on JUST NHL success at the expense of Peters' other accomplishments is also underselling his credibility. That is what I am addressing here: the notion that the best decision to coach the Flames was the most experienced HC with the most impressive NHL resume. Peters needs to prove that he is worth the reputation that has preceded him to this point, but it is a mistake to conclude that there were obviously better candidates for the job. We shall see.

[ForeverFlameFan]

The new motto should be “No Excuses” because we have none.

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by DropIt

If the players still in the locker room get bent out of shape that easily then I would say they have a pretty weak locker room leadership group.

If the players didn't get bent out of shape with regard to the player usage and assignments that we saw last year then I'd say there would be an even bigger issue. The majority of the players are competitors that are more invested in the game than anyone. They had to sit there and watch what was happening on their own team, knowing it was a recipe for failure. As fans, we were losing our minds about the opportunities Brouwer was being given. How would it feel to know that in clutch situations, your coach is looking down the bench and likely thinking it would be a good idea to throw Brouwer out there.

Originally Posted by Bingo

I don't actually think Gulutzan was that terrible a coach. I think he's a great technical assistant, that may not have the overall game management skills and "presence" to be a head coach.

People talk a lot about how smart Gulutzan is from a technical perspective. I don't get it. I've watched his presentations. There's nothing ground breaking. I've watched his teams. Average at best on all accounts. 50/50 which his teams play more like 30/70 with a lack of a forecheck. Everything about him screams "average."

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I have an open mind on Peters and really hope he'll be good but IMO you are understating the elephant in the room. Junior success and WHC success pale in comparison to zero for 4 in making the NHL playoffs. It's not that he hasn't had a lot of NHL success He hasn't had any in four seasons as a head coach. That is going to be the talking point until he gets a team into the playoffs.

Junior success is a springboard ... agreed.

But WHC head coaching jobs are given out on merit, it doesn't mean they are correct in how they are assessing merit, but merit nonetheless.

Getting to be one of the guys at the World Cup is pretty huge though, unless you think Babcock is the kind of guy that doesn't have the self confidence to be at a big tournament without his buddy around.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't know how anyone could hate Gulutzan. He's a nice guy and the kind of person you would want as your neighbor or friend. I do believe that players over time lost belief in his personnel decisions and systems which was probably a big reason their play just fell off the map down the stretch as there's only many times you can tell someone to hammer a square peg into a round hole before they toss the hammer and say "I'm done with this!".

I mentioned as much in the Brouwer thread earlier this morning that players are human and I'm sure plenty of players questioned why he got a letter on his jersey and his deployment on the first line or powerplay unit.

The Hamilton stuff is harder because there's nothing we can judge from his play on the ice that could draw any conclusions to his likeability in the room as he seemed to be the biggest joker which isn't what you normally see from a person that isn't' fitting in.

Lastly the source got this information from "chatting with someone in the organization?" I hear that stuff a lot and IMO it's probably 3rd hand stuff that may or may not be true so I take this with a grain of salt.

Nothing from the ice, but the whole brother thing for 2+ years was certainly strange enough to create an ongoing discussion here.

But I do think "odd" and "hated" are very different things.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Did anyone see that Canes team as having a playoff roster for those 4 years? I sure didn't.
Particularly with that goaltending
I get he needs to show he can get to the playoffs but it isn't like the Canes were a team that disappointed under his coaching tenure. It was a bad roster.

I am not an expert on other team's rosters but they certainly weren't considered a contender although some seemed to think they had emerging talent. I didn't hear many people saying they over achieved with Peters.

Hopefully the roster had a few gems considering our off season moves.

[nik-]

I'm glad we have threads like this now.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Did anyone see that Canes team as having a playoff roster for those 4 years? I sure didn't.
Particularly with that goaltending
I get he needs to show he can get to the playoffs but it isn't like the Canes were a team that disappointed under his coaching tenure. It was a bad roster.

The Canes were a “team on the rise” in the 4 years Peters was there but they always finished around .500 in points %. I questioned Treliving about this at the STH event and asked why he didn’t pursue a more proven coach. Tre seemed very confident the Canes couldn’t get over the hump due to their lack of spending and Peters was the guy.

Remains to be seen and I am skeptical but also remain optimistic

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Junior success is a springboard ... agreed.

But WHC head coaching jobs are given out on merit, it doesn't mean they are correct in how they are assessing merit, but merit nonetheless.

Getting to be one of the guys at the World Cup is pretty huge though, unless you think Babcock is the kind of guy that doesn't have the self confidence to be at a big tournament without his buddy around.

Agreed, he has credentials and not saying he hasn't deserved the opportunities he has received. But he has to show he can win at the NHL level still.

Lots of people like to say Belichick didn't have success before he coached the Patriots. He actually took the Browns to the playoffs in his fourth year.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The Canes were a “team on the rise” in the 4 years Peters was there but they always finished around .500 in points %. I questioned Treliving about this at the STH event and asked why he didn’t pursue a more proven coach. Tre seemed very confident the Canes couldn’t get over the hump due to their lack of spending and Peters was the guy.

Remains to be seen and I am skeptical but also remain optimistic

Quantify on the rise for me.
Did the roster improve through those 4 years? How?
Their big move was bringing in a new #1 goalie who proceeded to deliver AHL quality goaltending
So why were they on the rise? What improvements to the rosters were made?

Other big moves were to let Eric Staal walk, and the emergence of guys like Terevainen and Aho.
I can't think of any significant roster additions though beyond that. So why were people expecting improvement?

[Hey Connor, It's Mess]

I understand the disdain for Brouwer after what happened with Gaudreau and the slashes, that was likely not popular in the dressing room. It never seemed like he bought into playing here.

However, this group is quickly running out of rope and excuses. It's time for the players to take a good long look in the mirror and bring everything they've got this season, because my sympathy for them will reach zero if they manage to run another coach out of town while underperforming again.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Quantify on the rise for me.
Did the roster improve through those 4 years? How?
Their big move was bringing in a new #1 goalie who proceeded to deliver AHL quality goaltending
So why were they on the rise? What improvements to the rosters were made?

Other big moves were to let Eric Staal walk, and the emergence of guys like Terevainen and Aho.
I can't think of any significant roster additions though beyond that. So why were people expecting improvement?

A team that went from tha bubble to the playoffs is a team on the rise.

The roster improved in the sense they had a fair bit of high picks in the past we just traded for 2 players they took 5th overall.

I think last year bringing in Williams and Darling were supposed to be the moves that pushed them to the playoffs. Darling was bad and by all accounts was not in shape.

Like I said I am skeptical but remain optimistic. I am predicting the Flames make a run at the division title this year so I am excited but at this stage I would be more excited if we had AV for Sutter behind the bench. I really hope to eat crow here.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

A team that went from tha bubble to the playoffs is a team on the rise.

The roster improved in the sense they had a fair bit of high picks in the past we just traded for 2 players they took 5th overall.

I think last year bringing in Williams and Darling were supposed to be the moves that pushed them to the playoffs. Darling was bad and by all accounts was not in shape.

Like I said I am skeptical but remain optimistic. I am predicting the Flames make a run at the division title this year so I am excited but at this stage I would be more excited if we had AV for Sutter behind the bench. I really hope to eat crow here.

They've missed the playoffs 9 straight years under 3 coaches.
There is no sense that they were improving the roster of the team.

They've had high picks but they've used them for
Noah Hanifin #5 in 2015 (on a good trajectory so far)
Hayden Fleury #7 in 2014
Elias Lindholm #5 in 2013
No first in 2012
Ryan Murphy #12 in 2011

So where was the improvement going to come from? They haven't had enough high end young talent to expect the improvement to come from within and they haven't invested in the current roster to keep good players (Staal) or bring in others.

If you look at the rosters over the BP era can you say that year over year there was any improvement in what he had to work with
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...009792015.html

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...009792016.html

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...009792017.html

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...009792018.html

It's a whole pile of meh. I'm hesitant to blame Francis as I don't know if he had any opportunity based on budgets. But he also didn't make a single player for player deal (if i recall).

So again, where was the improvement supposed to come from?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't know how anyone could hate Gulutzan. He's a nice guy and the kind of person you would want as your neighbor or friend. I do believe that players over time lost belief in his personnel decisions and systems which was probably a big reason their play just fell off the map down the stretch as there's only many times you can tell someone to hammer a square peg into a round hole before they toss the hammer and say "I'm done with this!".
.

When I think of Glen Gulutzan, I think of this guy.

[Resolute 14]

Given how much money people spent to watch uninspired, uninteresting, unproductive Gulutzan hockey, I suspect there are a lot of people who hate him.

[Bingo]

The last three years the Hurricane's have had the third least, 2nd least, and least spent on NHL player salaries.

That's hard to compete with.

Other teams that can say the same in those three years? None

Only team that can say that in two of the last three years? Arizona.

This is not a list of successful teams or coaches.

[Erick Estrada]

Peters is an unknown to me. I can't say if he's going to be really good coach or a bad coach but I do feel like he will be better than the guy he's replacing even if that's a low bar. Season is approaching fast so we will get an idea soon.

[SeanCharles]

I've always been a Dougie supporter as he is a big, talented RH shot dman - essentially what every team covets.

I hated the trade immensely when it was first declared but now I have really warmed up on it and actually like it now.

There are a couple reasons for it:

- you just knew something was off with Hamilton in that his brother was on the team for so long. I remember the 2nd last time he went on waivers, before he got picked up by ARZ, all reports indicated he would be sent down once clearing. He stayed up and I believe Glass was put on waivers and sent down instead. Seemed kinda fishy like Hamilton made a fuss about it so they kept his bro up.

- my buddy went to Backlunds charity event I think it was at the end of last year and Hamilton was the only player to refuse to take a picture with him. At the time I sluffed it off but the more I thought about it the more it bugged me. It was a charity event, not some random interruption on the street or at a restaurant. Seemed like a d#*k move if you ask me.

- Fox was never going to sign here so I no longer hated him being involved in the deal. Ferland stung but was probably going to get paid and was too inconsistent to justify a big payday.

In regards to Brouwer, I never liked the signing from day 1 and likened it to Raymond, who I also instantly hated. Him being bought out was no surprise as I thought he would fizzle out here.

GG was frustrating in his personnel deployment choices and lack of mixing up the lines when they are stale and struggling. I liked him as a person but didn't like him as head coach.

All in all this rumour is no surprise because Hamilton, Brouwer and GG were all polarizing figures in Calgary.

I'm excited for this group and what they can do.

GFG