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Old 03-19-2019, 06:10 PM   #41
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do you have a go to strategy/ cookbook etc, of where you get your meal plan from, I guess is what I am wondering. You may be advanced level by now and don't need it, but say when you were a novice meal planner/preparer?
YouTube is your friend. There’s tons of you tube stars with food prep channels. Nearly all post their recipes, walk through the actual prep in the kitchen, spec containers to buy, etc.

Here’s an example from FlavCity:

https://youtu.be/xV-EmzaDHZ0

To your specific question, there’s lots of videos for meal prep noobies.
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Old 03-19-2019, 08:19 PM   #42
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One thing I have always wondered about diet's such as Keto or Atkins or whatever the flavour of the month may be, what about the long term HEALTH effects??

In a huge amount of cultures around the world, a very meat heavy diet isn't really prevalent and they have much much lower levels of chronic diseases. There are a lot of places were heart disease isn't nearly as prevalent as it is in North America, where it's the #1 killer of people.

I am of Greek background and many many of my friends are of immigrant backgrounds. A lot of our families have lots of stories from "the old country" where money was tight and meat was a luxury for once a week or a few times a month. They all grew up on really healthy foods such as beans, legumes, pastas, hearty soups and stews, very vegetable and fruit heavy. In a lot of ways, the current recommendations from the Canada Food guide.

Weight loss aside, which friends of mine on Keto have achieved, I don't get why the diet vilifies really really healthy and nutrient rich foods such as REAL bread, beans and legumes? Friends of mine literally have very healthy parents and grandparents who grew up eating really healthy foods such as described above but they consider a lot of the carbs "toxic" as if REAL bread and lentils are bad??

One friend of mine, instead of looking at his parents and grandparents and how they grew up, looks at a Youtube video recommendation on Keto about "eating whipped cream with a strawberrry or two, instead of eating strawberries with a little whipped cream"

I just don't think a can of whipped cream with a couple of strawberries and a 20 oz Alberta Rib Eye is the answer and bread, which we have eaten since the beginning of time, the enemy.
The steak and vegetables is what we have eaten dinner the beginning of time, not bread.
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:37 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by curves2000 View Post
One thing I have always wondered about diet's such as Keto or Atkins or whatever the flavour of the month may be, what about the long term HEALTH effects??

In a huge amount of cultures around the world, a very meat heavy diet isn't really prevalent and they have much much lower levels of chronic diseases. There are a lot of places were heart disease isn't nearly as prevalent as it is in North America, where it's the #1 killer of people.

I am of Greek background and many many of my friends are of immigrant backgrounds. A lot of our families have lots of stories from "the old country" where money was tight and meat was a luxury for once a week or a few times a month. They all grew up on really healthy foods such as beans, legumes, pastas, hearty soups and stews, very vegetable and fruit heavy. In a lot of ways, the current recommendations from the Canada Food guide.

Weight loss aside, which friends of mine on Keto have achieved, I don't get why the diet vilifies really really healthy and nutrient rich foods such as REAL bread, beans and legumes? Friends of mine literally have very healthy parents and grandparents who grew up eating really healthy foods such as described above but they consider a lot of the carbs "toxic" as if REAL bread and lentils are bad??

One friend of mine, instead of looking at his parents and grandparents and how they grew up, looks at a Youtube video recommendation on Keto about "eating whipped cream with a strawberrry or two, instead of eating strawberries with a little whipped cream"

I just don't think a can of whipped cream with a couple of strawberries and a 20 oz Alberta Rib Eye is the answer and bread, which we have eaten since the beginning of time, the enemy.


While you can get into ketosis with crappy foods, a proper keto diet is not at all what you described.
Protein is very moderate on a keto diet, so calling it "very meat heavy" and describing it as 20oz steaks is absolutely false.

I'm not saying it's the best diet for everyone, but you should explore it correctly and then make judgement.
What's you've described is just bad eating.
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:39 AM   #44
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I lost over 50 lbs and have kept it off eating whatever the hell I feel like.
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:43 AM   #45
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I lost over 50 lbs and have kept it off eating whatever the hell I feel like.
Cocaine is a hell of a drug.
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:49 AM   #46
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No drugs. Just keep the calories around 1900/day.
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Old 03-20-2019, 10:09 AM   #47
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No drugs. Just keep the calories around 1900/day.

Then are you really eating "whatever the hell you feel like"?
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Old 03-20-2019, 10:25 AM   #48
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Then are you really eating "whatever the hell you feel like"?
I didn't say I ate however much I felt like.

Yes, I will eat a donut. I guess I could eat three donuts, but then that would have to be most of my lunch.
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Old 03-20-2019, 10:41 AM   #49
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The steak and vegetables is what we have eaten dinner the beginning of time, not bread.
I hate these since the beginning of time arguments.

Physiologically humans have changed considerably over the last few thousand years. The digestive response to some foods included. That not withstanding There is evidence that Homo Erectus had a diet that included grains.

The reason why people believe that meat was such an important part of prehistoric diets is because evidence for meat consumption preserves much better in the archaeological record.

From the year 10,000 BCE to present grain has been one of the most important sources of food energy for nearly all parts of the world with the exceptions of circumpolar populations.
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Old 03-20-2019, 11:10 AM   #50
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I didn't say I ate however much I felt like.

Yes, I will eat a donut. I guess I could eat three donuts, but then that would have to be most of my lunch.

I get that, but even one 425 calorie donut, really limits what you can eat for the rest of the day (assuming no exercise).
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Old 03-20-2019, 11:34 AM   #51
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Im sorry I’m not going to get to much into this but this statement has been refuted many times over. There’s quite a difference from Keto in the 1930’s from Keto today. Like I said before, Keto is great if managed properly. But usually this is true in most diets.
This is a diet plan that was developed for cancer patients, epileptics and those who are morbidly obese as a way to rapidly adapt to a lifestyle change, is in no way sustainable and is extremely unhealthy for the general, active population. The diet itself actually causes lethargy as a major side effect, which in itself is extremely problematic to ones health and fitness. It is also quite dangerous for anyone who is active as it prohibits muscular regeneration leading to increased injury in sport.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/stayi...-the-keto-diet

Unless you are being properly monitored and following an extremely diligent regimen, the average active person shouldn't be putting their bodies at risk via ketosis. Doing so is actually altering your blood/insulin levels and putting your organs at risk and is in no way sustainable over a long term.

You can argue this all day but the reality is that sustainable health and fitness is achieved through consuming a regular , balanced diet and scheduled, repeated exercise.
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Old 03-20-2019, 04:34 PM   #52
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This is a diet plan that was developed for cancer patients, epileptics and those who are morbidly obese as a way to rapidly adapt to a lifestyle change, is in no way sustainable and is extremely unhealthy for the general, active population. The diet itself actually causes lethargy as a major side effect, which in itself is extremely problematic to ones health and fitness. It is also quite dangerous for anyone who is active as it prohibits muscular regeneration leading to increased injury in sport.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/stayi...-the-keto-diet

Unless you are being properly monitored and following an extremely diligent regimen, the average active person shouldn't be putting their bodies at risk via ketosis. Doing so is actually altering your blood/insulin levels and putting your organs at risk and is in no way sustainable over a long term.

You can argue this all day but the reality is that sustainable health and fitness is achieved through consuming a regular , balanced diet and scheduled, repeated exercise.
Thanks for that link; I've found it quite hard to find medical articles talking about any negative side of keto.

I've tried Keto and came off it because it's just too strict and unsustainable for me.
Not being able to have some fruit on a tropical vacation or the occasional ice cream isn't a lifestyle I can fully stick with.

Then you end up in a yoyo in and out of ketosis and constantly feeling keto flu symptoms.

Having said all that, it did open my eyes to just how much extra carbohydrates most people eat, especially processed carbs and sugars. I bet if you look at the average overweight person's diet, they're causing way more harm by overeating carbs than by too many fats.

I've found a good balance in still limiting my bread/pasta/grains intake, really cutting out processed sugar, but not going full fat ass keto.

You don't have to be on the keto diet to choose a salad over pasta and it did get me in the habit of making those type of decisions more often.
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Old 03-20-2019, 10:42 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus View Post
This is a diet plan that was developed for cancer patients, epileptics and those who are morbidly obese as a way to rapidly adapt to a lifestyle change, is in no way sustainable and is extremely unhealthy for the general, active population. The diet itself actually causes lethargy as a major side effect, which in itself is extremely problematic to ones health and fitness. It is also quite dangerous for anyone who is active as it prohibits muscular regeneration leading to increased injury in sport.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/stayi...-the-keto-diet

Unless you are being properly monitored and following an extremely diligent regimen, the average active person shouldn't be putting their bodies at risk via ketosis. Doing so is actually altering your blood/insulin levels and putting your organs at risk and is in no way sustainable over a long term.

You can argue this all day but the reality is that sustainable health and fitness is achieved through consuming a regular , balanced diet and scheduled, repeated exercise.
Ok.

That article is terrible.


Here is an actual study, with science.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716748/

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Old 03-21-2019, 08:57 AM   #54
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Ketogenic diet – what does the scientific evidence say about it?

https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skep...ific-evidence/

Summary

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There does not appear to be overwhelming evidence that the ketogenic diet actually has any advantage over any other diet for weight loss other than it may actually reduce calorie consumption and increase adherence to the diet. It has no magical properties to make the weight loss mechanism any better or worse than any other fad diet.

Furthermore, it does not prevent or cure cancer. I do wish this particular trope would go away, but I have no power over that.

Finally, there are some big risks to the ketogenic diet, including potential links to cardiovascular diseases and all-cause mortality. In other words, the benefits of weight loss, which is important, may be outweighed by the risks. But if it works for certain individuals who are younger and at lower risk to cardiovascular diseases and other mortality events, then maybe the benefits do outweigh the risks, especially if the weight loss is significant and long-term.

Usually in Sketpic blogs, there is a long list of citations, and there are good debates in the comment section, following the article . . .
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:00 AM   #55
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Ok.

That article is terrible.


Here is an actual study, with science.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716748/
Study involved "obese" patients only. "Obese patients (39 men and 44 women) with a body mass index greater than 35 kg/m2, and high glucose and cholesterol levels were selected".
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:33 AM   #56
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I found this helpful before:

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/4/

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When you come right down to it, no experiment is beyond criticism, and most published research is wrong. So how can we decide which studies are credible? We now have published guidelines such as the 22 item Consolidated Standards of Reporting Trials (CONSORT) checklist to assess the quality of randomized controlled trials, but Bausell offers some simpler criteria that can rule out the worst offenders:
  • Subjects are randomly assigned to a CAM therapy or a credible placebo
  • At least 50 subjects per group
  • Less than 25% dropout rate
  • Publication in a high-quality, prestigious, peer-reviewed journal

http://www.consort-statement.org/
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:48 AM   #57
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I'm not sure what the argument was in pointing out that the participants in the study I linked were obese. It was a weight loss study.

Anyways, aside from studies, all I have is my anecdotal evidence.

I've lost 50 lbs. I have an uncle who has lost over 60. I also have had a few friends/family members try it and not be able to keep it up. It definitely isn't a magic pill. It still works on the same principles as a normal diet. You eat fewer calories than you use. Keto just helps me eat less because I am not eating 'empty carbs'. I can eat steak and broccoli/cauliflower/asparagus for supper and be full until lunch or supper the next day. It is the level of satiety that helped me lose weight, because I don't eat nearly as often as I used to.

I had blood panels taken before I started, and after I finished my 'strict keto' phase. Every single metric improved, some incredibly so. I ended up getting a panel done about 3 weeks into strict keto and it did show that my bad cholesterol had increased a little bit, but my doctor told me that it is normal and would return to normal (and then go down further) in the next few weeks.
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Old 03-21-2019, 11:30 AM   #58
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I hate these since the beginning of time arguments.

Physiologically humans have changed considerably over the last few thousand years. The digestive response to some foods included. That not withstanding There is evidence that Homo Erectus had a diet that included grains.

The reason why people believe that meat was such an important part of prehistoric diets is because evidence for meat consumption preserves much better in the archaeological record.

From the year 10,000 BCE to present grain has been one of the most important sources of food energy for nearly all parts of the world with the exceptions of circumpolar populations.
I disagree. It's not humans that have changed substantially. We've changed plants to contain more carbohydrates, fats, and proteins that we can digest. For example, wheat does not exist in its current form in nature. We've bread a grass to produce far more energy for humans. This happened relatively recently too. The same goes for modern fruits and vegetables.

The argument for meat, is that is the only thing that exists in the wild that
can sustain a human being. Humans can get some basic sugars and vitamins from fruits, but unlike even our closest relatives, chimpanzees we cannot ruminate and break down fibre into energy. We've essentially changed fruits to make them large bags of water and sugar, because that tastes good.

The biggest argument against meat, is that vegetarians typically also have have calorie restricted diets that lead to weight loss, which is healthy. There are also moral arguments about the treatment of animals.
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Old 03-21-2019, 06:16 PM   #59
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What's most odd about the keto diet is how much people want to argue about it.

Some people really want to go out of their way to disprove any success stories, claim it's all bacon & lard, and will kill you in the long run.
Other's want to claim they've found the holy grail, just eat bacon 3 times a day to lose weight and no one should ever eat a carb.

I listened to this podcast on the diet today and thought it was pretty good: https://ultimatehealthpodcast.com/dr...axe-keto-diet/

I like how the doctor talks about different commitment levels to it, cycling on it, allowing adjustment to the macro % levels. Like most diets, there's a lot of good in it and you can take some of that and implement it into what works for you.

Not everything has to be simplified into an argument of it being the best thing ever vs worst thing ever.

Another resource I used when trying to eat lower carb was https://www.dietdoctor.com/
I found the recipes good, loaded with vegetables and having a grocery list with full weekly meal planning was really helpful.

The visual guides are really good for any diet too: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/keto/visual-guides
It's nice to start understanding where things you eat and drink sit on the carb scale. Regardless of how much you're trying to set your macros at, knowing where foods stack up is needed.

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Old 03-21-2019, 09:22 PM   #60
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That’s why I didn’t really want to push my point to much, the arguments for and against get pretty crazy with way to much intensity.
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