Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Agreed. I think Fox and/or Bennett get moved for picks.

Fox maybe, no way Bennett is moved for picks in my opinion. Treliving needs to make the playoffs this season. No way a pick outside a top 5 pick gets you a player that is better than Bennett THIS season...

[Enoch Root]

Yeah, you don't trade picks for a player one year (because you think you're window is opening), and then turn around and start trading players for picks the next year.

I could see Fox moved for picks. And I could see a player not deemed to be part of the plans (like Stone, for instance, because there are replacements available), but not Bennett.

I could also see a big trade that brought back a pick along with other assets (for instance a Hamilton for a forward plus a 1st, type of trade).

[Mr.Coffee]

I don’t feel like a late round 1st would be enough for Fox who is a terrific prospect. Like does anybody actually believe we end up with a better prospect when picking a late round first? I don’t. Unless you can get a 2nd and late 1st but that’s probably asking too much.

Not sure how you bridge the value really.

Don’t like the idea of trading Bennett unless we get in a time machine and go back to when the Flames didn’t wait for his value to erode significantly. The answer to this threads question is undoubtedly yes, obviously as the value has cratered from a 4th overall. Best play for Bennett now is hoping Peters can rebuild the guys confidence and teach him to play a little smarter. He could still emerge eventually as a 2nd line player potentially but trading him today, you’re definitely not getting a player or pick that has better odds of emerging as a 2nd line player than Bennett may have.

Im not sure why the Flames are in a rush to get more prospects by trading for a pick. We have lots of good prospects. We just need to develop them better. The best thing the Flames can do is analyze other teams that successfully groom prospects to NHL quality and mimic whatever the hell they are doing.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yeah, you don't trade picks for a player one year (because you think you're window is opening), and then turn around and start trading players for picks the next year.

I could see Fox moved for picks. And I could see a player not deemed to be part of the plans (like Stone, for instance, because there are replacements available), but not Bennett.

I could also see a big trade that brought back a pick along with other assets (for instance a Hamilton for a forward plus a 1st, type of trade).

So many people forget that any pick isn't going to play for maybe 3 years. And then on a lesser role, because he's a rookie.

[Vinny01]

I definitely do not want to see Bennett traded for a pick in the 20’s. Sure Backlund worked out after 7-8 years and Jankowski isshowing pronise 6 years after being drafted. But then I think of Pelech, Irving, Neimez, Erixon, Poirer, Klimchuk and do not see any reason to trade Bennett straight up for a later first.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Bingo

They graduated Monahan, Bennett and Tkachuk as top six forwards.
They have three goaltenders with upside.
They have four defensemen with top four potential.

That's a pretty stocked young team.

I'm sure they'd love to add to that and keep their picks for sure, but the logic certainly wasn't insane.

Bennett is not a top six forward.

The Flames did take a unique approach, no other team in the league traded as many picks as the Flames did over the past 5 years. Most teams trade picks to try to win a cup, the Flames took a different approach and traded picks to try to make the playoffs.

3 goalies with upside is a real stretch, if they have upside we should trade Gillies for a 2nd rounder. We would be lucky to get a 4th for Gillies.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

3 goalies with upside is a real stretch, if they have upside we should trade Gillies for a 2nd rounder. We would be lucky to get a 4th for Gillies.

That doesn't follow. Established NHL goalies are often going for 2nd-round picks or less. Just because a goaltending prospect wouldn't fetch that on the trade market doesn't mean he has no upside.

But here's an idea. Since we're judging players entirely by what draft picks we could get for them in trades, why don't we trade the entire team for picks every season? We'd have the worst club in the history of the league, year after year, but hey, maybe one day we would have the entire draft all to ourselves. Apparently that's the object of running a hockey team.

[Harry Lime]

This thread is getting a little crazy with the dislike of all of our young players. I think that I finally understand Putin's cyber attack plan for Canada. Very sly.

Calgary should be hording it's young players, because aside or Gio, the old timers have been a drag.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Speaking of which....

Don't be surprised at all if Jankowski is the Flames number 2 centre at the start of the season next year. He and Tkachuk could hold that role and Backlund could be put in the third pairing where he naturally fits.

Foo and Ferland holding down the two RW spots, and Bennett reunited with Backlund and Frolik.

Barring an impact trade, which I'm beginning to think will not happen. The big move could have already played out with the new coach.

There is no number 2 center. Unless you mean PP?
Backlund will draw the toughest even strength zone starts and assignments. Period.

Flames need the Jankowski line (or whoever) to score a lot more. To score more like a second line anyway. And need Backlund line to score more too.

[Harry Lime]

I just hope they mix the lines more effectively. I'm not sure that Tkachuk isn't being wasted on Backlunds line. Tkachuck - Jankowski - Ferland would be an effective line, and Bennett was a great complement to Backlund Frolik before he was removed.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

They graduated Monahan, Bennett and Tkachuk as top six forwards.
They have three goaltenders with upside.
They have four defensemen with top four potential.

That's a pretty stocked young team.

I'm sure they'd love to add to that and keep their picks for sure, but the logic certainly wasn't insane.

I don’t think Treliving is insane. Like Benjamin Franklin said, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Maybe impatient and overvaluing their own players and prospects? That is more my concern. Maybe I’m letting last year affect me too much so I’m excited to see how team looks with a different coach. Maybe they’re closer than their record would indicate.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I believe that was Leonardo DaVinci who said that not Thomas Edison

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Like Benjamin Franklin said, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Except that he never said that. (Nor did Albert Einstein, Mark Twain, or any of the usual suspects.) And that isn't the definition of insanity anyway.

Anyway, I agree with you and Bingo that Treliving & Co. are not insane. I don't think they are overvaluing their own players and prospects, though they may well have overvalued Hamonic when they traded for him. I do suspect they know that now is not a good time to sell, when everyone connected with the team is being seen at their worst.

One thing does perplex me, I confess. There seems to be a lot of effort spent on this forum reading the tea leaves, and figuring out which major parts of the team should be jettisoned and how much to blame Treliving for not doing it. I don't get it. The playoffs are not even over yet, and while it is legal to make trades before the end of the post-season, there are perfectly good reasons why it seldom happens. Some of the deadwood will be cleared out when contracts expire on June 30, and nothing can make that happen any sooner. It seems like an unhelpful time to be worrying over details of a process that hasn't really started yet.

[Hey Connor, It's Mess]

It was Morgan Freeman who said it, thought that would be common knowledge at this point.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Hey Connor, It's Mess

It was Morgan Freeman who said it, thought that would be common knowledge at this point.

If Freeman said it, must be true. He coined the phrase “I can not tell a lie”.

[Two Fivenagame]

great thread

[VilleN]

Why would Fox get traded for picks? What logic is there to that? Fox seems to be a solid pick... so trade him for a slightly younger pick with even less certainty?


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[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Some of the deadwood will be cleared out when contracts expire on June 30, and nothing can make that happen any sooner. It seems like an unhelpful time to be worrying over details of a process that hasn't really started yet.

I sort of agree, but Tre is in a quiet period so maybe now CP going through the exercise is most helpful for him timewise.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by VilleN

Why would Fox get traded for picks? What logic is there to that? Fox seems to be a solid pick... so trade him for a slightly younger pick with even less certainty?


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If there was concern over signing him?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by VilleN

Why would Fox get traded for picks? What logic is there to that? Fox seems to be a solid pick... so trade him for a slightly younger pick with even less certainty?


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I brought Fox up earlier as trade bait so maybe this was directed at me?

If so, I clearly stated twice in my post that I would only consider doing it if they were fairly certain he was going to finish school and go UFA.