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Old 06-14-2021, 07:01 AM   #1
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Icon23 Friedman: Dougie Hamilton given permission to talk to other teams

the bidding for one of the biggest free agents has begun.

Also shows the Canes are not that confident that they will be able to re-sign him.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1404422212631908355

https://twitter.com/user/status/1404423326739619841

Last edited by sureLoss; 06-14-2021 at 07:10 AM.
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:07 AM   #2
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The Canes were also the team the "let" Sebastian Aho sign an offer sheet -- only to match.

It suggests they're cheap but will pay market if they have to, so better to let other teams negotiate instead of risking overpaying.
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:15 AM   #3
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Since when is sign-and-trade a thing in the NHL. I know in the NBA it happens occasionally but when was the last time it happened in the NHL?

Just let the player go to free agency and you either sign him or you don't.
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:19 AM   #4
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Since when is sign-and-trade a thing in the NHL. I know in the NBA it happens occasionally but when was the last time it happened in the NHL?

Just let the player go to free agency and you either sign him or you don't.
In the NBA I believe it has to do with cap stuff.

Now, in the NHL, this would allow a team to give Dougie an 8 year deal, which might give that team a leg up on other suitors. The Canes would get something for their troubles.
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:26 AM   #5
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In the NBA I believe it has to do with cap stuff.

Now, in the NHL, this would allow a team to give Dougie an 8 year deal, which might give that team a leg up on other suitors. The Canes would get something for their troubles.
Also less of a chance of a dollar bidding war since it would be dollars and assets as opposed to just dollars. And it allows more teams to be in it since they could have dollars going back the other way to make room.
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:30 AM   #6
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Really smart IMO. Set a firm offer and show some good will by letting Dougie compare it. I think it also increases the value of his 'signing rights' - it could be buying a month+, instead of the usual few days. And maybe squeeze more value by helping with an 8 year deal.
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:30 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by savemedrzaius View Post
Since when is sign-and-trade a thing in the NHL. I know in the NBA it happens occasionally but when was the last time it happened in the NHL?

Just let the player go to free agency and you either sign him or you don't.
Only the Canes can sign him to a 8 year deal.

The win-win-win scenario being:

1. Dougie gets an 8 year deal
2. His new team gets a more manageable AAV on a 8 year deal vs a 7 year deal
3. Canes get assets for a UFA and facilitating the deal

It almost happened with the Isles and Leafs with Tavares, but because Tavares took so long in his decision, there wasn't enough time to pull off the deal before free agency began.
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:31 AM   #8
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That organization definitely does things differently. Maybe it's genius given the results but I can't believe they haven't extended Brind'Amour.
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:32 AM   #9
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Right, I remember from somewhere that players can re-sign for longer terms than they can sign for... so CAR signing him for their max term and then trading him to NSH (for example) is more beneficial to NSH than if they just signed him on their own.

The interesting part, is that this would all have to be negotiated before the trade went down, and NSH isn't giving up a bunch of assets for a couple extra years of term... meaning this could end up being Dougie Hamilton signed for 8 years and traded for a 3rd round pick. Would the NHL and/or PA allow that?
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:37 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by sureLoss View Post
Only the Canes can sign him to a 8 year deal.

The win-win-win scenario being:

1. Dougie gets an 8 year deal
2. His new team gets a more manageable AAV on a 8 year deal vs a 7 year deal
3. Canes get assets for a UFA and facilitating the deal

It almost happened with the Isles and Leafs with Tavares, but because Tavares took so long in his decision, there wasn't enough time to pull off the deal before free agency began.
Seattle can also give him 8 years
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:42 AM   #11
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Right, I remember from somewhere that players can re-sign for longer terms than they can sign for... so CAR signing him for their max term and then trading him to NSH (for example) is more beneficial to NSH than if they just signed him on their own.

The interesting part, is that this would all have to be negotiated before the trade went down, and NSH isn't giving up a bunch of assets for a couple extra years of term... meaning this could end up being Dougie Hamilton signed for 8 years and traded for a 3rd round pick. Would the NHL and/or PA allow that?
Well, the PA would have zero say in any trade, and the league wouldnt intervene unless there was something throwing the cap compliance out of whack or there was a circumvention involved.
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:42 AM   #12
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Pretty risky too. I think this makes more sense if dougie is 29 or 30 and 8 year deal is most likely deal. Dougie is 28 in a flat cap league. He might want a short term deal. 8 years expires at 36 so he may want 8 years but he might look at 3 or 4 years then sign a Brent burns deal until he is 40 and get big money at the end of his career too

If he has 1 team that he really wants to play for or doesn’t want 8 years they might get nothing vs trading his rights for a pick
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:46 AM   #13
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The Canes were also the team the "let" Sebastian Aho sign an offer sheet -- only to match.

It suggests they're cheap but will pay market if they have to, so better to let other teams negotiate instead of risking overpaying.
Of course the risk is that he doesn’t offer the Canes a chance to match. Aho was required to do that, Hamilton is not.
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:46 AM   #14
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Looking back on the Flames-Canes blockbuster it has really been a win-win deal. The Canes have had their best 3 year stretch as a team in over a decade. Hamilton has been a great player as he was in Calgary.

I remember when the deal went down there were a few that said the best player from the deal could be Fox and considering he had a Norris nomination already those predictions were true however that didn’t happen in Carolina. 3 years later the Canes only have the 2 seconds they got for Fox and potentially an asset or two they get from a Hamilton sign and trade (or maybe they keep Dougie).

I still think this was one of the best moves of the Flames rebuild. The combination of players received and the contracts they signed have worked out extremely well for the Flames. Lindholm has been arguably the teams best player and Hanifin took a really big step this season on establishing himself as a top pairing Dman. Both with 3 years left on their deals tilts the long term success of this trade firmly in the Flames favor
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:55 AM   #15
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I hope teams understand what they’re getting into if they sign Hamilton. The guy likes going to museums! What a psycho!
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:57 AM   #16
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I hope teams understand what they’re getting into if they sign Hamilton. The guy likes going to museums! What a psycho!
Uppity.
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Old 06-14-2021, 09:14 AM   #17
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Right, I remember from somewhere that players can re-sign for longer terms than they can sign for... so CAR signing him for their max term and then trading him to NSH (for example) is more beneficial to NSH than if they just signed him on their own.

The interesting part, is that this would all have to be negotiated before the trade went down, and NSH isn't giving up a bunch of assets for a couple extra years of term... meaning this could end up being Dougie Hamilton signed for 8 years and traded for a 3rd round pick. Would the NHL and/or PA allow that?
I suppose if Carolina is able to protect Hamilton in expansion but another team that wants him is not, it also sets up a "sign now and trade after the expansion draft" scenario.
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Old 06-14-2021, 09:17 AM   #18
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Carolina definitely cannot protect him in the expansion draft. They have Slavin, Pesce, Bean and Skeij to deal with even without having to worry about Hamilton.
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Old 06-14-2021, 09:20 AM   #19
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So what teams could possibly sign him and have a spot on their roster to protect him without losing a key Dman?

Oilers off the top of my head?
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Old 06-14-2021, 09:26 AM   #20
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I hope teams understand what they’re getting into if they sign Hamilton. The guy likes going to museums! What a psycho!
The museum angle was a nothingburger. But there are still questions around how good a fit Hamilton is with a lot of teams considering his lackadaisical play without the puck and perceived lack of big-game quality. From a recent article in the Athletic:

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We spoke with three separate sources who questioned whether you can win a Stanley Cup with Hamilton as a centerpiece player. Complimentary? Sure. Who doesn’t love his point production, one source said. Hamilton finished with 42 points tied for 7th among NHL defensemen and a plus-20 rating. He added five points in 11 post-season games but just one point, a goal, against Tampa. He’s got a great shot and is the focal point of one of the league’s most productive power play units. But when you’re talking let’s say eight years at $8 million, which is what John Carlson signed in Washington a couple of years back, that’s the kind of dollar and term that can bury a team if you assign it to a player who can’t deliver the goods. “My belief has long been you can’t win with him in the playoffs,” one veteran Eastern Conference source said. Another source suggests that while defending playoff MVP Victor Hedman plays “with the Viking way about him, that’s something I think Dougie is missing.“
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