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Old 06-14-2021, 11:43 AM   #4701
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Am I the only one that thinks that the goal of 70% of eligible vaccinated is kind of a low bar?

I know we can't force people, but if 30% of the eligible population is anti-vaxx, aren't we in a bad spot as a society then?
We've always been in this spot as a society. There seems to be about 30% of people that are regressive and just hold us back, ask all the wrong questions, and bumble their way to all the wrong conclusions. It's a downer, but I don't think it's anything new.

Look at that screaming banshees protesting desegregation in the 60s. The morons who won't make a cake for a gay couple. The car people who will never buy an electric car because they'll miss the rumble of a V8. The troglodytes that don't have a smartphone. The people who eat the body and blood of their 2000-year-dead god every Sunday. On and on it goes. You just have to bulldoze them as best you can.
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Old 06-14-2021, 01:22 PM   #4702
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Vaccine lotto site active: https://vaccinelottery.alberta.ca/vl
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Old 06-14-2021, 01:52 PM   #4703
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That 70% is also just the provincial goal. Calgary was around 75% and climbing as of a few days ago. If the city centers can get around 80% we are is good shape.
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Old 06-14-2021, 02:15 PM   #4704
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If we had many more rational people and fewer people too lazy to get off their arses and get their vaccinations the goal should be 85% minimum. It shouldn’t take a lottery; people shouldn’t need to be bribed to do the right thing.
Have a client like this, 3 weeks ago he got it as well as 4 other of his employee's and 2 of them had to be hospitalized and aren't back to work yet, his lazy nonchalant attitude and allowing the anti vax formula among his employee's cost some large $$$
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Old 06-14-2021, 02:37 PM   #4705
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We've always been in this spot as a society. There seems to be about 30% of people that are regressive and just hold us back, ask all the wrong questions, and bumble their way to all the wrong conclusions. It's a downer, but I don't think it's anything new.

Look at that screaming banshees protesting desegregation in the 60s. The morons who won't make a cake for a gay couple. The car people who will never buy an electric car because they'll miss the rumble of a V8. The troglodytes that don't have a smartphone. The people who eat the body and blood of their 2000-year-dead god every Sunday. On and on it goes. You just have to bulldoze them as best you can.
It’s not that simple. I know you want to believe it’s just a bunch of rednecks who are wary of the vaccine. It’s easier to blame people you already hate.

Vaccine hesitancy is higher in the sophisticated, secular EU than in the yeehaw bible-thumping USA.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuac...h=427204e7611f

Then there’s Asian countries which were held up as models of civic-minded rationality early in the pandemic. In Japan, only 63 per cent of people say they intend to get vaccinated for Covid. South Korea has similarly low levels of trust in the vaccines.

https://www.asiapacific.ca/publicati...covid-olympics

In Canada, younger people are more reluctant to be vaccinated than older people, which doesn’t fit with your narrative that it’s culturally reactionary. People of colour are more reluctant, which runs contrary to the association you made with bigotry.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/.../00011-eng.htm

I know you’re eager to bulldoze a bunch of backwards hicks holding protests in Central Alberta. Are you eager to bulldoze new Canadians and people of colour who work cleaners, store clerks, and security guards as well?
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Old 06-14-2021, 02:41 PM   #4706
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I don't think that negates the fact that throughout history there always seems to be like 30% of people who can't figure it out.

I didn't see Sliver mention rednecks, but I don't know that it matters. The point is, there's always a group of people on any given issue, even the important ones, that take forever to get with it or never do.
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Old 06-14-2021, 02:50 PM   #4707
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Originally Posted by CliffFletcher View Post
It’s not that simple. I know you want to believe it’s just a bunch of rednecks who are wary of the vaccine. It’s easier to blame people you already hate.

Vaccine hesitancy is higher in the sophisticated, secular EU than in the yeehaw bible-thumping USA.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuac...h=427204e7611f

Then there’s Asian countries which were held up as models of civic-minded rationality early in the pandemic. In Japan, only 63 per cent of people say they intend to get vaccinated for Covid. South Korea has similarly low levels of trust in the vaccines.

https://www.asiapacific.ca/publicati...covid-olympics

In Canada, younger people are more reluctant to be vaccinated than older people, which doesn’t fit with your narrative that it’s culturally reactionary. People of colour are more reluctant, which runs contrary to the association you made with bigotry.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/.../00011-eng.htm

I know you’re eager to bulldoze a bunch of backwards hicks holding protests in Central Alberta. Are you eager to bulldoze new Canadians and people of colour who work cleaners, store clerks, and security guards as well?
I don't know that your reply has anything to do with my post. Regressives have no political affiliation nor can you just focus on rednecks. Just look at the hipster anti-vaxxers in super liberal areas of California. You can be a regressive and be a UCPer, a Liberal, an NDPer, a fifth-generation Canadian, a new Canadian, an Australian, Chinese, Japanese, etc. etc.
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Old 06-14-2021, 02:56 PM   #4708
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I know you’re eager to bulldoze a bunch of backwards hicks holding protests in Central Alberta. Are you eager to bulldoze new Canadians and people of colour who work cleaners, store clerks, and security guards as well?
And yes, you do have to bulldoze them all. By that I mean, just keep moving forward and let them flap around on the sidelines while the rest of us get this done and make it happen. We don't have time to hold their hand and walk them through what should be basic and obvious. We have the plan (vaccinate) and we need to do it as quickly as possible. Let's incentivize vaccination (the lottery is great IMO) and punish unvaccinated people by taking away privileges (I don't know what that'll look like yet, but I'm in favour of putting things like no plane travel, no access to post-secondary lecture theaters, employers requiring vaccines to maintain employment, etc. on the table).
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Old 06-14-2021, 02:57 PM   #4709
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And I think it's probably well established at this point that anti-vaxxers are commonly the new age weirdos who also believe in cleanses and auras and ####. I don't think anyone often thinks of a country bumpkin every time they hear "vaccines cause autism!!!" or whatever. It's basically always someone who believes turmeric enemas can cure cancer or something.

EDIT: I also think it's funny that we're now playing identity politics around anti-vaxxers. "Oh, you shouldn't want to treat them that way, they're people of colour." Hilarious given the source, honestly. It shouldn't matter where they're from, what colour their skin is, what they do for work, or how highly educated they are. Identity has nothing to do with it. Why even bring that into the discussion?

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Old 06-14-2021, 02:57 PM   #4710
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It’s not that simple. I know you want to believe it’s just a bunch of rednecks who are wary of the vaccine. It’s easier to blame people you already hate.
...
I know you’re eager to bulldoze a bunch of backwards hicks holding protests in Central Alberta. Are you eager to bulldoze new Canadians and people of colour who work cleaners, store clerks, and security guards as well?
I know you're eager to claim this without any evidence whatsoever, but that's all I know.

Assh-les are assh-les no matter their political slant, education, race, creed, gender, orientation, etc. and we're addressing all of them when we call them out. Two of the most annoying anti-vax dipsh-ts I personally know are granola bar leftists, one of which even has some post-secondary under her belt (and is extended family).
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Old 06-14-2021, 03:12 PM   #4711
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State of Emergency lifted for Calgary immediately, which great. Interestingly though Nenshi said that the mask mandate will be talked about on Monday, I think next week. Nenshi also said that the mask mandate even if its lifted at the provincial level wont be lifted in the city till end of the July at the earliest. To which I say Good Luck to you sir!

*Edit* - I am not an anti masker, just don't think most will listen if/when the province opens up.

Last edited by Jay's Beagle; 06-14-2021 at 03:14 PM. Reason: adding more context
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Old 06-14-2021, 03:16 PM   #4712
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State of Emergency lifted for Calgary immediately, which great. Interestingly though Nenshi said that the mask mandate will be talked about on Monday, I think next week. Nenshi also said that the mask mandate even if its lifted at the provincial level wont be lifted in the city till end of the July at the earliest. To which I say Good Luck to you sir!

*Edit* - I am not an anti masker, just don't think most will listen if/when the province opens up.
Yeah, mask compliance has taken a nosedive in the past 7-10 days from what I'm seeing out here. Can't wait until I get my second dose on Friday. Not too stressed about it with the low numbers, anyway, TBH, but still looking forward to having as much protection as possible (yes, I know you have to wait two weeks post-shot...even seven days is great with Pfizer).
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Old 06-14-2021, 03:21 PM   #4713
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Just a reminder your 2nd dose needs a full two weeks to take maximum effect. Not that people seem to care about that anyways at this point.
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Old 06-14-2021, 03:31 PM   #4714
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Just a reminder your 2nd dose needs a full two weeks to take maximum effect. Not that people seem to care about that anyways at this point.
I thought the Pfizer 2nd dose efficacy trials were based off of 1 week post 2nd shot.
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Old 06-14-2021, 03:32 PM   #4715
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Originally Posted by Sliver View Post
We've always been in this spot as a society. There seems to be about 30% of people that are regressive and just hold us back, ask all the wrong questions, and bumble their way to all the wrong conclusions. It's a downer, but I don't think it's anything new.

Look at that screaming banshees protesting desegregation in the 60s. The morons who won't make a cake for a gay couple. The car people who will never buy an electric car because they'll miss the rumble of a V8. The troglodytes that don't have a smartphone. The people who eat the body and blood of their 2000-year-dead god every Sunday. On and on it goes. You just have to bulldoze them as best you can.
Segregationists and flip phone users. Now there’s a left field comp.
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Old 06-14-2021, 03:44 PM   #4716
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Old 06-14-2021, 03:51 PM   #4717
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And yes, you do have to bulldoze them all. By that I mean, just keep moving forward and let them flap around on the sidelines while the rest of us get this done and make it happen. We don't have time to hold their hand and walk them through what should be basic and obvious. We have the plan (vaccinate) and we need to do it as quickly as possible. Let's incentivize vaccination (the lottery is great IMO) and punish unvaccinated people by taking away privileges (I don't know what that'll look like yet, but I'm in favour of putting things like no plane travel, no access to post-secondary lecture theaters, employers requiring vaccines to maintain employment, etc. on the table).
Sounds emotionally appealing. But it’s the exact opposite of what experts in these matters are advising. Health care facilities are using education to encourage reluctant health care workers to get vaccinated. And in the Herald today a behavioural economist called the vaccine lottery “just a dumb idea.”

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...ural-economist
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Old 06-14-2021, 03:54 PM   #4718
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Segregationists and flip phone users. Now there’s a left field comp.
They're one in the same as far as I'm concerned.

My storefront is easy to see, but you kind of have to snake in a few streets to access it. When people ask for directions, I just say, "tell your smartphone, 'take me to Sliver's Store' and 99% of the time they say, okay. That 1% is so fataing smug and annoying, though. "I don't have a smartphone...my old Motorola is good enough for me!" Yeah, okay fatawad, meanwhile I'm rattling off directions and wasting 10 minutes of my time as you get lost, or I'll sit there while you fumble for a pen and paper and ask me to repeat myself 11 times. Or I'll ask you to text me a photo of whatever the fata you're talking about and you can't because you don't have a phone. Okay, well allow yourself to inconvenience me because you're a dope. Ugh, hate them so much. They are part of the 30% that drags the rest of us down.
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Old 06-14-2021, 03:56 PM   #4719
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Segregationists and flip phone users. Now there’s a left field comp.
I’m surprised teachers and dog lovers didn’t make the list.
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Old 06-14-2021, 04:00 PM   #4720
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Sounds emotionally appealing. But it’s the exact opposite of what experts in these matters are advising. Health care facilities are using education to encourage reluctant health care workers to get vaccinated. And in the Herald today a behavioural economist called the vaccine lottery “just a dumb idea.”

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...ural-economist
And there are plenty that disagree with him.

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Are vaccine lotteries actually working? And if so, why do they bother some people

He observed that those who are hesitant to get vaccinated because they fear unlikely side effects might actually be “optimally suited” for a vaccine lottery incentive, according to Williams.

“If you can convince yourself you have a realistic possibility of winning the lottery, you may be the same kind of person who has an unrealistic view of blood clots,” he said. “You’ve given disproportionate weight to unrealistic outcomes.”
https://coronavirus.nautil.us/covid-vaccine-lotteries/
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Wait, Vaccine Lotteries Actually Work?

But economists who know how to party see lotteries and other inducements in a whole different way. This will sound resoundingly dumb when I say it, but some people need reasons to justify their behaviors and make decisions. That idea is called “reason-based choice.” Vaccines are scarce in most of the world but widely available in the United States. If someone hasn’t gotten one yet, maybe they’re just an anti-vaxxer, in which case, a lottery ain’t gonna help. But different kinds of hesitancy are sensitive to different kinds of interventions. Some people—like in the Black community—have historical reasons to distrust the medical establishment, and that requires a different kind of outreach to fix. And some people, maybe they’re busy, or they procrastinate, or they’re worried about side effects, or they’re anywhere else on the spectrum of hesitancy. Some motivational change might, well, nudge them to get a shot.

https://www.wired.com/story/wait-vac...actually-work/
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Vaccine lotteries are working. Experts explain why

Lotteries, on the other hand, tap into people's emotional side and offer an "exciting" opportunity. "Let's face it, buying a lottery ticket is a fairly bad idea as an investment return — only pennies on the dollar," Asch says. "But lotteries offer the chance to win a huge prize and people are much more likely to focus on the big prize than on the small chance of winning that prize."

One way to look at this is what one psychologist called "unrealistic optimism," but another explanation is simply that as humans, we can't fully grasp how unlikely it is that we will win. "It's a psychological phenomenon that we tend to focus more on the prize and have a hard time understanding the implications of small probabilities," says Asch. "A typical person doesn't understand the difference between a one in 100 chance and a one in 10,000 chance. They both seem small, but one is a hundred times larger than the other. You'd think that would make a difference, but it doesn't. We just can't comprehend it."

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/vaccine-lo...222901456.html
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