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Old 02-08-2021, 03:06 PM   #21
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The GOAT across all sports means he is the clearest cut GOAT in his own sport. Wayne has a really strong case, but tons of people consider Bobby the GOAT in hockey or even Mario.

If you start talking about GOATs in the different major sports, there is a decent argument to be had and no clear cut choice i.e.: Michael vs LeBron, Tiger vs Jack, Ronaldo vs Messi.

IMO the clearest choice for GOAT in his sport, without much argument is Brady. Therefore, Brady has the strongest case to be declared the GOAT across all sports and has my vote.
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Old 02-08-2021, 03:18 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames View Post
The GOAT across all sports means he is the clearest cut GOAT in his own sport. Wayne has a really strong case, but tons of people consider Bobby the GOAT in hockey or even Mario.

If you start talking about GOATs in the different major sports, there is a decent argument to be had and no clear cut choice i.e.: Michael vs LeBron, Tiger vs Jack, Ronaldo vs Messi.

IMO the clearest choice for GOAT in his sport, without much argument is Brady. Therefore, Brady has the strongest case to be declared the GOAT across all sports and has my vote.
Exactly.

Brady is untouchable in football, what he has done in unprecedented and unheard of in a sport with short career spans. However I think he loses points since football is such a North American sport with limited worldwide involvement. In my opinion it's a lot tougher to be the GOAT in a sport like soccer that has a much longer history, with much higher worldwide participation, than a sport like Football that is more niche in the big scheme of things.

Phelps and Bolt deserve some consideration too for their Olympic dominance.

Ali is the GOAT in terms of social impact to the World and Popularity, but his actual dominance in his field is a bit overstated.

Serena Williams is probably the most dominant athlete ever, and is easily the GOAT female athlete of all time and deserves consideration too.

But in terms of the other pro sports it’s tough because nobody is unanimous anymore.

Hockey: Gretzky is the best but people still will argue for Orr, and nobody is going to touch his records. Hockey to me is held back in the same way that football is in that it's not as widespread as something like Soccer or Track & Field, so maybe that loses you some overall points.

Baseball: What Babe Ruth did was remarkable for the time but athletes of today’s generation are just so much better it’s tough to consider him the GOAT.

Golf: Tiger should be the GOAT but his late career failures opened up the door enough for Jack to still have a stake to the claim.

Tennis: Nadal and Djokovic have done enough to put Federers status as the GOAT into question

Soccer: Too many names to consider. Pele, Messi, Ronaldo, Maradona...really this is probably Pele and he deserves to be in consideration with Brady, Phelps, & Bolt.

F1: Schumacher is close but Lewis Hamilton has challenge to that throne right now and is younger.

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I don't think LeBron is underrated, IMO he's actually massively overrated due to recency bias.

Jordan is the goat for most people old enough to remember watching him. LeBron is the goat for most people too young to have watched Jordan.

Kareem is the forgotten goat because he dominated 40 years ago and retired 30 years ago. When he dominated, the NBA finals weren't even carried live, they were on tape delay. He dominated before cable sports channels.

Kareem is the goat.

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.
I remember watching Jordan and I still think Lebron has a claim.

But either way the point still stands - it's not unanimous for the NBA. Jordan, Lebron, Kareem all hold a potential claim on the Greatest of All Time. Kareem is by far the career leader in Win Shares (with Wilt and Lebron as 2 & 3)

Jordan gets a bump in these things because his timing in sport happened to align to a time when Black Culture in music, TV, and Sport was becoming mainstream, and his personality and shoe brand transcended the sport and his flaws and failures get overlooked.

In my opinion I think if you are looking at GOATs across multiple sports the short list at this time is Brady, Pele, Phelps, & Bolt (And maybe Gretzky). Plus Serena who is the greatest female athlete of all time and deserves consideration for the all time GOAT across sports.

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Old 02-08-2021, 03:39 PM   #23
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You forgot Airplane!

And Bruce Lee's Game of Death, with that epic foot print.
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Old 02-08-2021, 03:49 PM   #24
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LeBron is severely underrated. Say what you will about Jordan and his days, but LeBron has won the ultimate prize with 3 different teams. Jordan needed Pippen and Rodman. LeBronís teammates were interchangeable
Lol, that is not an argument in LeBron's favour.

The fact that you can now customize your teamates to be amazing makes it much easier for him to win than it was for Jordan.

What you call "interchangeable" is actually "hand picked".
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Old 02-08-2021, 03:52 PM   #25
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Old 02-08-2021, 03:55 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMatt18 View Post
In my opinion I think if you are looking at GOATs across multiple sports the short list at this time is Brady, Pele, Phelps, & Bolt. Plus Serena who is the greatest female athlete of all time and deserves consideration for the all time GOAT across sports.
Pele can't be on the short list for reasons you posted already.
Taking nothing away from him, there's too much debate over who's the GOAT in socccer.

I think Gretzky is on that list though. No one serious makes the argument for Orr being ahead of him, that's more of a trying to be different take.
I'm sure there's football fans who would come up with someone over Brady in the same way. They're can't be taken seriously.
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Old 02-08-2021, 04:02 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates View Post
Lol, that is not an argument in LeBron's favour.

The fact that you can now customize your teamates to be amazing makes it much easier for him to win than it was for Jordan.

What you call "interchangeable" is actually "hand picked".
The biggest argument in Lebron's favour will always be how the teams did without him.

Cleveland Round 1

Cleveland 09-10 With Lebron

.744 win percentage

Cleveland 10-11 w/o Lebron

.232 win percentage


Miami

Miami 13-14 w/ Lebron

.659 win percentage

Miami 14-15 w/o Lebron

.451 win percentage

Cleveland Round 2

Cleveland 13/14 without Lebron
.402 win percentage

Cleveland 14/15 with Lebron
.646 win percentage, lost in Finals

Cleveland 17-18 with Lebron

.610 win percentage

Cleveland 18-19 w/o Lebron

.232 win percentage

Compare that to Jordan

Chicago 92-93 with Jordan

.695 win percentage

Chicago 93-94 w/o Jordan

.671 win percentage

Those Bulls teams were top 3 in the Conference without Jordan, when Lebron missed games or left a team they instantly became a lottery team and vice versa he was able to turn teams around.

Lebron (and now Brady) are the only players that have single handled had such a big impact on a team being a title contender vs a lottery team in team sports history.

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Old 02-08-2021, 04:02 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames View Post
The GOAT across all sports means he is the clearest cut GOAT in his own sport. Wayne has a really strong case, but tons of people consider Bobby the GOAT in hockey or even Mario.

If you start talking about GOATs in the different major sports, there is a decent argument to be had and no clear cut choice i.e.: Michael vs LeBron, Tiger vs Jack, Ronaldo vs Messi.

IMO the clearest choice for GOAT in his sport, without much argument is Brady. Therefore, Brady has the strongest case to be declared the GOAT across all sports and has my vote.
This is not a strong argument. It just doesn't make any logical sense.

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Exactly.
No, Wayne is just as untouchable as Brady. Maybe moreso since Wayne obliterated literally every record in hockey, something Brady hasn't come close to doing and Brady plays a sport that relies much more on other aspects of the game, like good defense, than hockey.

If we're going to include every random kook who holds a contrarian opinion then there's no point in even trying to discuss a GOAT.

Anyone who doesn't include Gretz in the GOAT discussion should have all their opinions stricken from the record because their bias is so strong, it invalidates all other opinions.


Being the GAOAT (greatest athlete) is so much more than JUST being the best at your sport. It involves being bigger than sports. Jordan did that, Brady is doing that, Ali invented it, James is trying to do it.

Gretzky actually has a weaker case for transcending sport until he went to LA. That and the fact hockey isn't quite a global phenomenon like Jordan/Ali were with their sports. Brady lives in the age of celebrity so that's almost not fair to compare to Wayne.

I'd personally disqualify someone like Serena since she's such an awful person but that's my own bias. She's also barely better than Steffi Graf IMO but again, separate discussion.

The fact soccer has so many people in the GOAT discussions is a reflection of its popularity and longevity. But I think it is fair to say it is Pele. Messi hasn't won ####, Ronaldo is close but no cigar.

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Old 02-08-2021, 04:03 PM   #29
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The fact he's only GOAT at a single discipline in his sport and none of the others completely disqualifies him from any GOAT discussions.

It makes him borderline for even being included in the Tennis GOAT discussion.


Nadal has 20 majors, and it's quite clear that injuries were what prevented him from winning many more. He was dealing with tendinitis when he lost to Soderling in the 2009 French Open. Also, who can forget the 2014 Aussie final where he was about to dumpster Wawrinka, only for his back to suddenly flare up and basically cripple him for the rest of the match.

"Single discipline"...? He won 5 majors on hardcourt and 2 on grass, in addition to 13 on clay. Fed has just one on clay, and there's no chance in hell he wins that if Rafa is 100% for that tournament. It's pretty telling that Rafa has beaten Fed in a Wimbledon final, but Fed has never beaten Rafa in a French Open. Is it better to be absolutely dominant on one court type and very good on the other two, or be very good on two and mediocre on the third?

What's more, Rafa's win % in majors matches is 87.9, compared to Djoker's 86.8 and Fed's 86.0. Also, in head to head matchups, Nadal leads Fed 24-16 (10-4 in grand slams).

Not only is it arguable that Nadal has overtaken Fed as the tennis GOAT, I would say that it's very clear that he has. A lot of Fed's majors were won during a period of time when Sampras had retired, Agassi was on the decline, Nadal had not entered his prime yet and Djokovic wasn't on the scene yet. Nadal, on the other hand, won all of his majors while in direct competition with Fed and Djoker.

The only real question is whether or not Novak surpasses Rafa before all is said and done, but we'll see. Remember that Novak is only one year younger than Rafa (albeit has had far fewer injures than Rafa).
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Old 02-08-2021, 04:04 PM   #30
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Pele can't be on the short list for reasons you posted already.
Taking nothing away from him, there's too much debate over who's the GOAT in socccer.

I think Gretzky is on that list though. No one serious makes the argument for Orr being ahead of him, that's more of a trying to be different take.
I'm sure there's football fans who would come up with someone over Brady in the same way. They're can't be taken seriously.
There probably shouldn't be a debate though.

Messi doesn't have the international resume.

Ronaldo has the domestic and international titles, but isn't even considered the GOAT of his own generation by most.

Maradona doesn't have the career longevity.

Pele is still the GOAT footballer of all time, and the only way that's challenged is if Messi can actually win a World Cup.
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Old 02-08-2021, 04:07 PM   #31
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Wayne has to be on the GOAT of GOATS list.

His held or share records is, well just dumb.

REGULAR SEASON RECORDS (40)
GOALS (6)



MOST GOALS: 894 (1,485 games)
Second: 801 -- Gordie Howe, 26 seasons, 1,767 games


MOST GOALS, INCLUDING PLAYOFFS: 1,016 -- 894 regular season and 122 playoff
Second: 869 – Gordie Howe, 801 regular season and 68 playoff


MOST GOALS, ONE SEASON: 92 – 1981-82, 80-game schedule
Second: 87 – Wayne Gretzky, 1983-84, 80-game schedule


MOST GOALS, ONE SEASON, INCLUDING PLAYOFFS: 100 – 1983-84, 87 goals in 74 regular season games and 13 goals in 19 playoff games.
Second (tied): three players


MOST GOALS, 50 GAMES FROM START OF SEASON: 61 – 1981-82 (Oct. 7, 1981 to Jan. 22, 1982, 80-game schedule); 1983-84 (Oct. 5, 1983 to Jan. 25,1984, 80-game schedule
Next (third): 54 – Mario Lemieux, 1988-89 (Oct. 7, 1988 – Jan. 31, 1989, 80-game schedule)


MOST GOALS, ONE PERIOD: 4 – (Tied with 10 other players) Feb. 18, 1981, at Edmonton, third period (Edmonton 9, St. Louis 2)

ASSISTS (6)



MOST ASSISTS: 1,962 (1,485 games)
Second: 1,102 – Paul Coffey, 19 seasons, 1,320 games


MOST ASSISTS, INCLUDING PLAYOFFS: 2,222 – 1,962 regular season and 260 playoff
Second: 1,226 – Paul Coffey, 1,090 regular season and 136 playoff


MOST ASSISTS, ONE SEASON: 163 – 1985-86, 80-game schedule
Next (eighth): 114 – Mario Lemieux and Wayne Gretzky tied, 1988-89, 80-game schedule


MOST ASSISTS, ONE SEASON, INCLUDING PLAYOFFS: 174 – 1985-86, 163 assists in 80 regular season games and 11 assists in 10 playoff games
Next (tied for 11th): 121 – Mario Lemieux 1988-89; 114 assists in 76 regular season games and seven assists in 11 playoff games


MOST ASSISTS, ONE GAME: 7 – (tied with Billy Taylor) done three times – Feb. 15, 1980 at Edmonton (Edmonton 8, Washington 2); Dec. 11, 1985 at Chicago (Edmonton 12, Chicago 9); Feb. 14, 1986 at Edmonton (Edmonton 8, Quebec 2)
Second: 6 – 23 players


MOST ASSISTS, ONE ROAD GAME: 7 (tied with Billy Taylor) – Dec. 11, 1985 at Chicago (Edmonton 12, Chicago 9)
Second: 6 – four players

POINTS (4)



MOST POINTS: 2,856 –1,485 games (894 goals, 1,962 assists)
Second: 1,850 Gordie Howe, 1,767 games (801 goals, 1,049 assists)


MOST POINTS, INCLUDING PLAYOFFS: 3,238 – 2,856 regular season and 382 playoff
Second: 2,010 – Gordie Howe, 1,850 regular season and 160 playoff


MOST POINTS, ONE SEASON: 215 – 1985-86, 80-game schedule
Next (fifth): 199 – Mario Lemieux, 1988-89, 80-game schedule


MOST POINTS, ONE SEASON, INCLUDING PLAYOFFS: 255 – 1984-85; 208 points in 80 regular season games and 47 points in 18 playoff games
Next (sixth): 218 – Mario Lemieux, 1988-89; 199 points in 76 regular season games and 19 points in 11 playoff games

OVERTIME SCORING (1)



MOST OVERTIME ASSISTS, CAREER: 15
Second: 13 – Doug Gilmour, 16 seasons

SCORING BY A CENTER (6)



MOST GOALS BY A CENTER, CAREER: 894
Second: 731 – Marcel Dionne, 18 seasons


MOST GOALS BY A CENTER, ONE SEASON: 92 – 1981-82, 80-game schedule
Next (third): 85 – Mario Lemieux, 1988-89, 80-game schedule


MOST ASSISTS BY A CENTER, CAREER: 1,962
Second: 1,040 – Marcel Dionne, 18 seasons


MOST ASSISTS BY A CENTER, ONE SEASON: 163 – 1985-86, 80-game schedule
Next: Gretzky holds first through fifth positions


MOST POINTS BY A CENTER, CAREER: 2,856
Second: 1,771 – Marcel Dionne, 18 seasons


MOST POINTS BY A CENTER, ONE SEASON: 215 – 1985-86, 80-game schedule
Next (fifth): 199 – Mario Lemieux, 1988-89, 80-game schedule

SCORING BY A ROOKIE (1)



MOST ASSISTS BY A PLAYER IN HIS FIRST NHL SEASON: 7 – Feb. 15, 1980, at Edmonton (Edmonton 8, Washington 2)
Second: 6 – Gary Suter, April 4, 1986 at Calgary (Calgary 9, Edmonton 3)

PER-GAME SCORING AVERAGES (4)



HIGHEST GOALS-PER-GAME AVERAGE, ONE SEASON: 1.18 – 1983-84, 87 goals in 74 games
Second (tied): 1.15 – Mario Lemieux (1992-93, 69 goals in 60 games) and Wayne Gretzky (1981-82, 92 goals in 80 games)


HIGHEST ASSISTS-PER-GAME AVERAGE, CAREER (300 MIN.): 1.321 – 1,962 assists in 1,485 games
Second: 1.183 – Mario Lemieux, 881 assists in 745 games


HIGHEST ASSISTS-PER-GAME AVERAGE, ONE SEASON: 2.04 – 1985-86, 163 assists in 80 games
Next (eighth): 1.52 – Mario Lemieux, 1992-93, 91 assists in 60 games


HIGHEST POINTS-PER-GAME AVERAGE, ONE SEASON (AMONG PLAYERS WITH 50-OR-MORE POINTS): 2.77 – 1983-84, 205 points in 74 games
Next (third): 2.67 – Mario Lemieux, 1992-93, 160 points in 60 games

SCORING PLATEAUS (12)



MOST 40-OR-MORE GOAL SEASONS: 12 in 20 seasons
Second: 10 – Marcel Dionne in 18 seasons


MOST CONSECUTIVE 40-OR-MORE GOAL SEASONS: 12 – 1979-80 to 1990-91
Second: 9 – Mike Bossy, 1977-78 to 1985-86


MOST 50-OR-MORE GOAL SEASONS: 9 (tied with Mike Bossy) – Gretzky in 20 seasons and Bossy in 10 seasons
Second: 6 – Guy Lafleur in 17 seasons


MOST 60-OR-MORE GOAL SEASONS: 5 (tied with Mike Bossy) – Gretzky in 20 seasons and Mike Bossy in 10 seasons
Second: 4 – Phil Esposito in 18 seasons


MOST CONSECUTIVE 60-OR-MORE GOAL SEASONS: 4 – 1981-82 to 1984-85
Second: 3 – Mike Bossy, 1980-81 to 1982-83


MOST 100-OR-MORE POINT SEASONS: 15
Second: 10 – Mario Lemieux in 12 seasons


MOST CONSECUTIVE 100-OR-MORE POINT SEASONS: 13 – 1979-80 to 1991-92
Second: 6 – six players


MOST THREE-OR-MORE GOAL GAMES, CAREER: 50 – 37 three-goal games; nine four-goal games; four five-goal games
Second: 39 – Mike Bossy in 10 seasons (30 three-goal games, nine four-goal games)


MOST THREE-GOALGAMES, ONE SEASON: 10 (done twice) – 1981-82 (six three-goal games; three four-goal games; one five-goal game) and 1983-84 (six three-goal games, four four-goal games)
Next (third): 9 – Mike Bossy (1980-81, six three-goal games, three four-goal games) and Mario Lemieux (seven three-goal games, one four-goal game, one five-goal game)


LONGEST CONSECUTIVE ASSIST-SCORING STREAK: 23 games – 1990-91, 48 assists
Second: 18 – Adam Oates, 1992-93, 28 assists


LONGEST CONSECUTIVE POINT-SCORING STREAK: 51 Games – 1983-84 (Oct. 5, 1983 to Jan. 28, 1984, 61goals, 92 assists for 153 points)
Second: 46 – Mario Lemieux, 1989-90 (39 goals, 64 assists)


LONGEST CONSECUTIVE POINT-SCORING STREAK FROM START OF SEASON: 51 – 1983-84; 61 goals, 92 assists for 153 points (Oct. 5, 1983 to Jan. 28, 1984)


PLAYOFF RECORDS (15)

INDIVIDUAL PLAYOFF RECORDS (7)



MOST PLAYOFF GOALS, CAREER: 122
Second: 109 – Mark Messier


MOST ASSISTS IN PLAYOFFS, CAREER: 260
Second: 186 – Mark Messier


MOST ASSISTS, ONE PLAYOFF YEAR: 31 – 1988 (19 games)
Next (fourth): 28 – Mario Lemieux, 1991 (23 games)


MOST ASSISTS IN ONE SERIES (OTHER THAN FINAL): 14 – (tied with Rick Middleton) 1985 Conference Finals (six games vs. Chicago)
Second: 13 – Doug Gilmour, 1994 Conference Semifinals (seven games vs. San Jose) and Wayne Gretzky, 1987 Division Semifinal (five games vs. Los Angeles)


MOST ASSISTS IN FINAL SERIES: 10 – 1988 (four games, plus suspended game vs. Boston)
Second: 9 – three players


MOST ASSISTS, ONE PLAYOFF GAME: 6 – (tied with Mikko Leinonen) April 9, 1987 at Edmonton (Edmonton 13, Los Angeles 3)
Next: 5 – 11 players


MOST ASSISTS, ONE PLAYOFF PERIOD: 3 -- Three assists by one player in one period of a playoff game has been recorded on 70 occasions. Gretzky has had three assists in one period five times. (Ray Bourque, three times; Toe Blake, Jean Beliveau, Doug Harvey and Bobby Orr, twice.)

PLAYOFF POINTS (4)



MOST POINTS, CAREER: 382 – 122 goals and 260 assists
Second: 295 – Mark Messier, 109 goals and 186 assists


MOST POINTS, ONE PLAYOFF YEAR: 47 – 1985 (17 goals and 30 assists in 18 games)
Next: 44 – Mario Lemieux, 1991 (16 goals, 28 assists in 23 games)


MOST POINTS IN FINAL SERIES: 13 – 1988 three goals and 10 assists (four games plus suspended game vs. Boston, three goals)
Second: 12 – four players


MOST POINTS, ONE PLAYOFF PERIOD: 4 – (tied with nine other players) April 12, 1987 at Los Angeles, third period, one goal, three assists (Edmonton 6, Los Angeles 3)

PLAYOFF SHORTHAND GOALS (2)



MOST SHORTHANDED GOALS, ONE PLAYOFF YEAR: 3 – (tied with five other players) 1983 (two vs. Winnipeg in Division Semi-Finals, won by Edmonton, 3-0; one vs. Calgary in Division Finals, won by Edmonton 4-1)


MOST SHORT-HANDED GOALS, ONE PLAYOFF GAME: 2 – (tied with eight other players) April 6, 1983 at Edmonton (Edmonton 6, Winnipeg 3)

PLAYOFF GAME-WINNING GOALS (1)



MOST GAME-WINNING GOALS IN PLAYOFFS, CAREER: 24
Second: 19 – Claude Lemieux

PLAYOFF THREE-OR-MORE GOAL GAMES (1)



MOST THREE-OR-MORE GOAL GAMES: 10 (eight three-goal games, two four-goal games)
Second (tied): 7 – Maurice Richard (four three-goal games, two four-goal games, one five-goal game) and Jari Kurri (six three-goal games, one four-goal game)


NHL ALL-STAR GAME RECORDS (6)


NHL ALL-STAR GAME GOALS (3)


MOST ALL-STAR GAME GOALS: 13 (in 18 games played)
Second: 11 – Mario Lemieux (in eight games played)


MOST ALL-STAR GAME GOALS, ONE GAME: 4 – (tied with three players) 1983 Campbell Conference


MOST ALL-STAR GAME GOALS, ONE PERIOD: 4 – 1983 Campbell Conference, third period

NHL ALL-STAR GAME ASSISTS (1)



MOST ALL-STAR GAME ASSISTS, CAREER: 12 – (tied with four players)
Second: 10 – Paul Coffey (in 14 games played)

NHL ALL-STAR GAME POINTS (2)



MOST ALL-STAR GAME POINTS, CAREER: 25 – (13 goals, 12 assists in 18 games)
Second: 22 – Mario Lemieux (11 goals, nine assists in eight games played)


MOST ALL-STAR GAME POINTS, ONE PERIOD: 4 – (tied with Mike Gartner and Adam Oates) 1983 Campbell Conference, third period (four goals)
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Old 02-08-2021, 04:10 PM   #32
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Jim Brown is often at the top of greatest NFL players of all time lists.
Which is weird because the best running back of all time is Barry Sanders by a country mile.
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Old 02-08-2021, 04:12 PM   #33
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Nadal has 20 majors, and it's quite clear that injuries were what prevented him from winning many more. He was dealing with tendinitis when he lost to Soderling in the 2009 French Open. Also, who can forget the 2014 Aussie final where he was about to dumpster Wawrinka, only for his back to suddenly flare up and basically cripple him for the rest of the match.

"Single discipline"...? He won 5 majors on hardcourt and 2 on grass, in addition to 13 on clay. Fed has just one on clay, and there's no chance in hell he wins that if Rafa is 100% for that tournament. It's pretty telling that Rafa has beaten Fed in a Wimbledon final, but Fed has never beaten Rafa in a French Open. Is it better to be absolutely dominant on one court type and very good on the other two, or be very good on two and mediocre on the third?

What's more, Rafa's win % in majors matches is 87.9, compared to Djoker's 86.8 and Fed's 86.0. Also, in head to head matchups, Nadal leads Fed 24-16 (10-4 in grand slams).

Not only is it arguable that Nadal has overtaken Fed as the tennis GOAT, I would say that it's very clear that he has. A lot of Fed's majors were won during a period of time when Sampras had retired, Agassi was on the decline, Nadal had not entered his prime yet and Djokovic wasn't on the scene yet. Nadal, on the other hand, won all of his majors while in direct competition with Fed and Djoker.

The only real question is whether or not Novak surpasses Rafa before all is said and done, but we'll see. Remember that Novak is only one year younger than Rafa (albeit has had far fewer injures than Rafa).
Did you even read the post I quoted?

Try reading it and then respond.

Then try reading the other posts in this thread where I specifically said Nadal could be on the GOAT list.
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Old 02-08-2021, 04:18 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger View Post
Did you even read the post I quoted?

Try reading it and then respond.

Then try reading the other posts in this thread where I specifically said Nadal could be on the GOAT list.
Yeah, you pretty much called him a one-surface pony and said he's disqualified from GOAT discussions based on his current accomplishments.
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Old 02-08-2021, 04:26 PM   #35
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Never saw the guy play obviously, but I'd probably lose my Australian citizenship without mentioning Don Bradman. A 99.9 career test cricket batting average when the next closest is 61 has to be one of the most incredible records in any sport.
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Old 02-08-2021, 04:30 PM   #36
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I would say Alex Honnald. Free soloing when one mistake is death. He gets my vote.
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Old 02-08-2021, 04:40 PM   #37
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Which is weird because the best running back of all time is Barry Sanders by a country mile.
Sweetness closes the country mile up pretty quickly.

If only Barry had played longer.
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Old 02-08-2021, 04:42 PM   #38
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For me Sweetness is the GOAT RB in the NFL.

Had Barry Sanders stayed around he would be the GOAT and not even close.
Jim Brown retired quite young to act in films. He is the GOAT RB.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...test-jim-brown

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One important fact that people often forget when they compare Brown to modern day running backs is that he never played a 16 game season. In fact, for the first four years of his career, a season had only 12 games. His later seasons had 14 games for five cycles.

All of Brown's career stats match up very well against the other running back greats. But, a true measure of an athlete's skill is how he compared to his peers, and this is where Brown crushes the competition. Much like what Babe Ruth did for baseball, Brown revolutionized what people thought a running back was capable of accomplishing.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2015/10/06/ji...-nfl-greatness

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To his football heirs—from Barry Sanders to Adrian Peterson—he’s the one player by which their own greatness is measured. To those who played with and against the Cleveland Browns legend, his prowess, intensity and intellect remain awe-inspiring. Fifty years after walking away from the game at his peak, he still towers over the NFL. Yes, he was just that good.

He finished his career with 12,312 rushing yards in 118 games, a record that wasn’t broken until 1984, when Walter Payton went past him in 18 more games and 451 more carries. Brown’s career record of 104.3 rushing yards per game remains the 56-game hitting streak of NFL records. (Adrian Peterson, 30, would have to average almost 1,900 yards per season for the next three full seasons to tie Brown’s mark; it would take more than 2,500 yards for Peterson to do it in one year).

Wiggin and Brown came to Cleveland the same year, 1957. “Jim retired two years before I did,” said Wiggin. “He could have played 10 years beyond me if he wanted.”
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Old 02-08-2021, 04:43 PM   #39
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Jim Brown retired quite young. He is the GOAT RB.
I would put Barry and Sweetness ahead of him, IMO.
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Old 02-08-2021, 04:45 PM   #40
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I like mention of Honnald and it's got me thinking we need to expand our horizons looking for the GOAT.

I've got another Australian one: In 1892 Jackie Howe set 2 sheep shearing records, the daily one of 321 sheep in 7 hours 40 minutes and the weekly one of 1,437 sheep in 44 hours 30 minutes. This was all done using a pair of scissors and the records have never been broken without the use of mechanical shears.
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