It also continues to be an environmental nightmare. That weight does a few things destroys roads, gives off massive break dust, and tire dust. Side points for the person who hits someone in a crosswalk at low speed and kills them instantly.
Its something many don’t factor in to their green posturing. That electric vehicles weigh more than gas and the electricity source isn’t always clean. They also are death bricks if they hit anything smaller.
So let's break it down.
1) No environmental nightmare. EVs are better for the environment, as global warming is the biggest problem it faces and EVs are better in any scenario. They also create less pollution, not more ( https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...6041202031970X )
3) At high speeds I can see vehicle weight playing a factor in collisions. The pedestrian example at low speeds? I'm not sure how that is relevant.
4) Even with pure coal electricity generation an EV is less polluting over it's life cycle than ICE
5) The tire thing is silly. Local air quality and it's health impacts are far better with EVs. Do EVs give off more tire dust? It looks like they do, albeit marginally. Remember, ICE gives off your dust too! That small increase though is waaaaaaaaay outweighed by the dozens of toxins in ICE exhaust. There are dozens of studies proving this. It's not even a question.
It's not green posturing. Ask yourself this: why is literally every government pushing for electric vehicle adoption???? Green posturing?
So let's break it down.
1) No environmental nightmare. EVs are better for the environment, as global warming is the biggest problem it faces and EVs are better in any scenario. They also create less pollution, not more ( https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...6041202031970X )
3) At high speeds I can see vehicle weight playing a factor in collisions. The pedestrian example at low speeds? I'm not sure how that is relevant.
4) Even with pure coal electricity generation an EV is less polluting over it's life cycle than ICE
5) The tire thing is silly. Local air quality and it's health impacts are far better with EVs. Do EVs give off more tire dust? It looks like they do, albeit marginally. Remember, ICE gives off your dust too! That small increase though is waaaaaaaaay outweighed by the dozens of toxins in ICE exhaust. There are dozens of studies proving this. It's not even a question.
It's not green posturing. Ask yourself this: why is literally every government pushing for electric vehicle adoption???? Green posturing?
The reality IMO is that at full adoption EVs will have significant negative effects on the environment including depletion of scarce resources, disposal issues, impact of the mass scale electricity generation and transmission footprint. What it does do is mitigate the current climate crisis and kick the true underlying civilization sustainability issue down the road. We can continue to live our best lives with minimum inconvenience plus better 0-60 times!
Longer term, the survival of civilization will depend on moderating our resource consumption of all kinds. I’m not arguing against EV - they are a necessary improvement for the looming climate crisis but not by themselves a long term solution to overall sustainability.
The reality IMO is that at full adoption EVs will have significant negative effects on the environment including depletion of scarce resources, disposal issues, impact of the mass scale electricity generation and transmission footprint. What it does do is mitigate the current climate crisis and kick the true underlying civilization sustainability issue down the road. We can continue to live our best lives with minimum inconvenience plus better 0-60 times!
Longer term, the survival of civilization will depend on moderating our resource consumption of all kinds. I’m not arguing against EV - they are a necessary improvement for the looming climate crisis but not by themselves a long term solution to overall sustainability.
That's because NOTHING is an over arching kill shot, one solution, solution.
It's part of an over all plan to increase sustainability.
If your argument is EV's cant fix all the problems, then you are never gonna be happy. Because there isn't one single solution that will.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poe969
It's the Law of E=NG. If there was an Edmonton on Mars, it would stink like Uranus.
How can full EV adoption be a negative but a necessary improvement at the same time?
We need to reduce our carbon footprint, that is a clear imperative for climate reasons. Switching to EV is a clear solution to that problem and is a step we need to take to mitigate the looming climate crisis. I’m fully onboard.
The point I was trying to make is that just switching from fossil fuels to electricity doesn’t address a bigger longer term issue of living within the constraints of the earth. That will require us to change our lifestyles, whereas just switching to EV allows us to maintain our current high resource lifestyles longer. This is no way a criticism of EV or a suggestion that we don’t move aggress in that direction. I’m just saying that moving from high carbon/high resource use to low carbon/high resource use isn’t sufficient for long term sustainability. We need to use fewer resources to produce products, use products longer, etc. This will include giving up some luxuries we currently enjoy.
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We are never going to give up our luxuries, nor should that be the goal.
Sustainable manufacturing is possible.
Recycled plastics, recycled wood products, recycled electronics, etc. This is where we need government mandate to force these things along.
Even cement can be made a lot more environmentally friendly.
But there has to be an incentive to do so. The carbon tax isn't enough. It might reduce fossil fuel use, but won't incentivize Tesla or Bird Construction to use greener products in their manufacturing process.
How can full EV adoption be a negative but a necessary improvement at the same time?
Essentially, EVs >>> ICE. But in the long run waaaaaaaaay less vehicles >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more vehicles. We can't get to way less vehicles by 2050 but we can eliminate ICE by then
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We are never going to give up our luxuries, nor should that be the goal.
Sustainable manufacturing is possible.
Recycled plastics, recycled wood products, recycled electronics, etc. This is where we need government mandate to force these things along.
Even cement can be made a lot more environmentally friendly.
But there has to be an incentive to do so. The carbon tax isn't enough. It might reduce fossil fuel use, but won't incentivize Tesla or Bird Construction to use greener products in their manufacturing process.
In theory yes, but a big part of 'luxury' is always buying the latest and greatest of everything. Even if new things are greener they are still net new consumers of resources vs the old things (not considering cases where the new thing is more efficient and has net lower lifetime cost).
In theory yes, but a big part of 'luxury' is always buying the latest and greatest of everything. Even if new things are greener they are still net new consumers of resources vs the old things (not considering cases where the new thing is more efficient and has net lower lifetime cost).
True.
We should educate people on the value of buying quality items, and not needing the latest.
But we are fighting against the human problem.
Sustainable manufacturing will solve most of our issues.
Electric motor tech in the Plaid is not of this world, mind blown. Hope it trickles down to the less expensive models.
Yeah, imagine pulling up to a light in your $500.000 Ferrari 812 and getting your doors blown off by a 4 door family sedan
I hope the prices drop as well but when you consider the savings on gas $170.000 CDN for that kind of performance is cheaper than cheap, and you can drive it every day of every month in Canada.
Elon said if there were aliens on Earth he would know. So either he's covering for himself or not an alien.
This is the perfect example of engineering for speed and ending up with way better efficiency in the process. Tesla also found a way to reduce the battery pack weight but didn't say how.
Scotty says hydrogen is the future and Tesla is doomed.
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This new Rimac Nevera is insane. 8.62 in the quarter mile.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
Jay leno breaks 1/4 mile production car speed record in the Tesla Model S plaid
Ha- poor Rimac, that didn't take long.
Cool to see how fast cars are getting, for some reason I find this arms race a little less exciting than last stage IC development where all sorts of crazy devices started to get bolted up to engines to squeeze out more power. Still really impressive either way.
Cool to see how fast cars are getting, for some reason I find this arms race a little less exciting than last stage IC development where all sorts of crazy devices started to get bolted up to engines to squeeze out more power. Still really impressive either way.
It's at the point where it just ins't that big of a deal for me anymore. Yeah, they're fast. Great! I love speed but they're all fast and the differences don't move the needle for me much anymore.
Other advances, tech, and comfort are far more interesting and enticing. Fast is covered.
(referring to purchase choices here)
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It's at the point where it just ins't that big of a deal for me anymore. Yeah, they're fast. Great! I love speed but they're all fast and the differences don't move the needle for me much anymore.
Other advances, tech, and comfort are far more interesting and enticing. Fast is covered.
(referring to purchase choices here)
At some point, similar to F1, that speed is just too dangerous to keep going, and they're going to have to put some sort of limiter on it. You already have dbags constantly ripping down Deerfoot at dangerous speeds overestimating their driving abilities. Can you imagine if every Joe Blow has that type of speed in their family sedan. I'd predict a lot fatalities. I guess that's where the self driving kicks in.
