Top guys excuses

[TheScorpion]

remember when Iginla, Conroy, and Bouwmeester ran the room

yeah that went well

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

remember when Iginla, Conroy, and Bouwmeester ran the room

yeah that went well

I don’t think anyone ever looked on Bouwmeester as someone who could run the room. And I the Flames’ weaknesses in those days were beyond being remedied by good leadership from Iginla or Conroy.

[GirlySports]

The 3M line cannot hit, why are they out there to stick check McKinnon?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by boogerz

Peters also had Stone at his disposal as a big, physical dman that he chose not to use...

lol

[Classic_Sniper]

Heard on the Fan that no top players were injured. All were as healthy as you can be entering the playoffs. This would be really bad for Monahan because not only was he a non factor in the playoffs, but was absolutely terrible for 3 whole months minus 2 good games (NJD, ANA).

The only excuse I have for the big guys though is that the Avs neutralized their skill very effectively, much like the Knights did last season on route to the Cup finals. Their constant wave of speed and back pressure just tired out the opposition allied them to sweep the Kings, and beat the Jets and Sharks in 5 and 6.


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[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

I don’t think anyone ever looked on Bouwmeester as someone who could run the room. And I the Flames’ weaknesses in those days were beyond being remedied by good leadership from Iginla or Conroy.

I remember hearing about the country club mentality that surrounded those teams in those years...

Also Bouwmeester had an A, did he not?

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Redliner

This.

Lindholm was the best player on that line by far. The offence wasn’t really there but he was engaged, skated hard, and was one of the most physical players on the team. Seemed to be one of the only Flames players who remembered how to play defense too. I would have like to see him put up more points but if we talking about trading people he’s one of the last places I’d start.

Yeah, he definitely didn't do enough offensively, but I saw him dish out quite a few big hits that series.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

You don't surround your top guys that happen to play soft with soft support guys.

Zadarov on the regular system had close to as many hits as all the Flames D-men combined. Hanifin the Flames toughest d-man would have the 5th ,ost hits on the Avs roster.

The Flames premier shut down physical d-Man Hamonic seldom was in a situation where he would knock someone off the puck..... only 44 hits in 62 regular season games.

The Flames played far more physical in this brief series .... it was a huge jump from their comfort zone.


Gio should not be captain.

I knew you'd be back under present circumstances. Silent all season as the Flames did well, then here you are!

Not shocked, not surprised.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

Monahan - he must have been hurt no?
See a lot of bashing and trade talk but I don't think he's this soft and invisible.
He also got the most rest leading to playoffs.
If he wasn't very limited playing hurt I'll by very surprised.

I think this screwed up Gaudreau and put even more pressure on him to perform. Proving he's too small and needs to work on his conditioning even despite playing so many minutes he was visibly gassed and shaken.

Gio - is it just me or was he not the same since almost breaking Connor's leg. All of that weird apologetic talk in the media I think he lost his edge and he lost his mojo with the rest of the team being captain as well. That and his age may have finally caught up with him in the playoffs.

Tkachuk was shell shocked by the playoffs and Avs. No rough stuff or getting under anyone's skin. Inexperience here IMO...

Our Carolina guys were soft as hell. Lindholm bounced off of opposing players going at full speed. Not for a lack of effort but he's small and should be traded on a high...

Overall rest strategy going in really made things worse.

Was there something else that happened on or off the ice after the all Star break? Be interesting to know

Lindholm is listed as 6'1 195lbs. Ive heard Peters say he's over 200lbs. Definitely not small. And he was one of the more physical players.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

The 3M line cannot hit, why are they out there to stick check McKinnon?

The 3M line could not keep up with any of the Avs forwards let alone MacKinnon.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Lindholm is small and needs to be traded? That's a terrible take.

How does anyone watch the series and decide out of our top line that Lindholm is the one that most needs to be dealt? He's the last one I'd move out of Monahan/Gaudreau/Lindholm. He's the only one with some jam and grit and physicality to go along with his skill.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by the2bears

I knew you'd be back under present circumstances. Silent all season as the Flames did well, then here you are!

Not shocked, not surprised.

Such a weird guy. All he does is criticize the team. Any positive talk is in regards to other teams and how the Flames are inferior. I honestly think he prefers the team does bad than good. Strange dude.

[Ozy_Flame]

I feel like Ryan Reaves would have been a great addition for us last year.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I remember hearing about the country club mentality that surrounded those teams in those years...

Also Bouwmeester had an A, did he not?

Iggy and Conroy led a ragtag team to game 7 of the finals, I believe when you were a toddler. Their actual success kind of bought them some good will

[SofaProfessor]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

A shame we never truly exhausted that idea

- When he rarely did center Gaudreau, it was also with AHL caliber chumps like Jooris, Chiasson, and Lazar. And even then, one of those stretches centering Gaudreau just happened to be a rough individual stretch for him period in terms of puck luck.

- He was never as good at faceoffs as he was this year, and yet this year he didn't play a lick of the position

- He only ever centered Tkachuk for about five games when Tkachuk was an 18 year old rookie still adjusting to the speed of the game. And even then, the winger opposite was Troy Brouwer.

- He hasn't seen top PP time since the old days of Bob Hartley

I've often been beating on the drum that Bennett has never had a fair shake with quality linemates to truly see what he is capable of. He seems to get short stints but if it doesn't work out in a game or two then he's back down the lineup. I really think he needs a chance on the top line, perhaps at C. Or put Lindholm at C and Bennett on the wing. Give them 10+ games to build some chemistry and figure it out. This might be able to spread out some of that top end scoring as well. I also know he wouldn't put up points like Monahan but he can be effective when he's not doing that so his linemates still have plenty of opportunity. Maybe we don't see those big dramatic peaks and valleys throughout the season?

I'm sure the coaching staff has talked about this. We can't be the only ones thinking about it. I just wonder why they have never pulled the trigger and if maybe this playoff series is what does the trick.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Iggy and Conroy led a ragtag team to game 7 of the finals, I believe when you were a toddler. Their actual success kind of bought them some good will

Yeah I'm not talking about that team, but good one. That team had a strong leader in Darryl Sutter.

I'm talking about when the Flames' leadership group was Iginla, Conroy, and J-Bo under Brent Sutter. That team had a country club mentality and the players ran the room very poorly. Of course, all hearsay, but there were big rumours about rifts in the room and etc.

I'm not talking about the 2004 team at all. Or were Bouwmeester and Leopold the same person?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Yeah I'm not talking about that team, but good one. That team had a strong leader in Darryl Sutter.

I'm talking about when the Flames' leadership group was Iginla, Conroy, and J-Bo under Brent Sutter. That team had a country club mentality and the players ran the room very poorly. Of course, all hearsay, but there were big rumours about rifts in the room and etc.

I'm not talking about the 2004 team at all. Or were Bouwmeester and Leopold the same person?

Did you ever see them in the same room together? I thought not!

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

Gio - is it just me or was he not the same since almost breaking Connor's leg. All of that weird apologetic talk in the media I think he lost his edge and he lost his mojo with the rest of the team being captain as well. That and his age may have finally caught up with him in the playoffs.

I know some people will think of this as a silly take, but I actually somewhat agree. I love what Gio did as a player this year, he was an absolute beast. But even in his post series comments he was gushing over the Avs players. Its not like the Flames don't have any. This team needed to have a real swagger coming into these playoffs. The Flames are a good organization in terms of how the players conduct themselves but sometimes I really think we need some more arrogant type A personalities in the ranks that want to assert themselves as dominant in the league. They definitely shouldn't be apologizing for playing defence (the McDavid thing) or acting like they just got beat by a team full of hall of famers in the playoffs. The Flames don't always have to be the nice guys of the NHL. They need to be hating this right now.

[zamler]

McDavid almost broke his own leg by grabbing Gio's stick then going into a spin it was self inflicted. I hate revisionist history.

[Ped]

If Monahan was hurt to the point where he was completely ineffective, then that is on management and coaching for playing him.


If it's another issue, that's on him.


As for trading their top players, absolutely you can explore that - but you only move them if you think it makes your team better, not just for the sake of moving them or for "the room."


Maybe instead of trying to completely remake the team, bring in some effective leaders. Obviously they tried that with Neal and with Brouwer and it failed spectacularly, but there are other players out there.


IIRC when Carolina won the Cup, they brought in Doug Weight and Mark Recchi who were no longer stars but good solid veterans who could still contribute.


You could argue Neal was acquired for that, but he was obviously signed to be a bigger piece.


Don't overreact to the Avs. Examine everyone and see what works and what doesn't. Don't start stripping Cs and what not, but maybe you need to bring in another proven leader who can kick guys in the butt.



Maybe Monahan isn't your best option for number one center. But unless you can get a batter one, you're kind of stuck. Maybe Gaudreau doesn't have what it takes to grind through the playoffs. Find him a linemate who does.


It's not easy but it's possible.