Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 03-22-2019, 01:47 PM   #1421
redforever
Franchise Player
 
redforever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muffins View Post
To be fair, those were a thing before the vaccine became available, and worked quite well.
How did that work well? Not only did you force your child to get chicken pox which has serious side effects...but now those same children as adults can get shingles.

If you eradicate chicken pox, eventually shingles gets eradicated too.
redforever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2019, 01:56 PM   #1422
Muffins
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Muffins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redforever View Post
How did that work well? Not only did you force your child to get chicken pox which has serious side effects...but now those same children as adults can get shingles.

If you eradicate chicken pox, eventually shingles gets eradicated too.
Keep in mind I said BEFORE the vaccine was available. I'm not saying it's a good idea now.
__________________
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity" -Abraham Lincoln
Muffins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2019, 01:56 PM   #1423
puckedoff
First Line Centre
 
puckedoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Exp:
Default

Re: Red forever - Not sure how old you are but in the time before chicken pox vaccine, it was very normal for everyone to 'want' their kids to all get chicken pox and sometimes even make sure all your kids got it at the same time so you only had to deal with it once.

Obviously chicken pox is far less serious than the measles, so in that case it did work pretty well.
puckedoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2019, 02:41 PM   #1424
redforever
Franchise Player
 
redforever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by puckedoff View Post
Re: Red forever - Not sure how old you are but in the time before chicken pox vaccine, it was very normal for everyone to 'want' their kids to all get chicken pox and sometimes even make sure all your kids got it at the same time so you only had to deal with it once.

Obviously chicken pox is far less serious than the measles, so in that case it did work pretty well.
Sorry, that does not resonate with me at all!!! That was not a common thing for any disease when I was growing up...so measles, mumps, whatever, I know of no-one in my community who purposely got their children sick. What purpose did it ever serve? That you can't get chicken pox again? duh. It should never be a good idea to purposely expose your children to anything that has physical consquences that come with contagious diseases.

And I am old enough to have watched hockey when it was only the Original 6 in the NHL.
redforever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2019, 05:26 PM   #1425
Ped
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ontario
Exp:
Default

Arbitrator in Ontario rules mother has right to keep her kids, believing an "anti-vaccination" expert, and ordering her husband to pay the court costs.


Quote:
“Choosing not to vaccinate is not illegal, negligent nor immoral. It is a personal choice,” wrote lawyer Herschel Fogelman in his arbitration decision last year. “I am unable to find any risk to (the children) if they remain unvaccinated. Further, I am satisfied on the evidence the vaccines may pose additional risk to them.

Quote:
In fact, while the case was being heard, both children contracted whooping cough — or pertussis — one of the diseases covered by standard childhood vaccinations

https://nationalpost.com/news/arbitr...ination-expert
Ped is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2019, 05:28 PM   #1426
Ped
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ontario
Exp:
Default

For some reason I can't edit. Right to keep her kids from being vaccinated, is what I meant.
Ped is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2019, 05:28 PM   #1427
rubecube
Franchise Player
 
rubecube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ped View Post
Arbitrator in Ontario rules mother has right to keep her kids, believing an "anti-vaccination" expert, and ordering her husband to pay the court costs.

https://nationalpost.com/news/arbitr...ination-expert
Lawyer should be disbarred.
rubecube is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to rubecube For This Useful Post:
Old 03-28-2019, 05:32 PM   #1428
troutman
Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer
 
troutman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Winebar Kensington
Exp:
Default

Appeal!
__________________
https://www.mergenlaw.com/
http://cjsw.com/program/fossil-records/
twitter/instagram @troutman1966
troutman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2019, 05:40 PM   #1429
rubecube
Franchise Player
 
rubecube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by troutman View Post
Appeal!
Trout, do you know from personal experience if the Bar Association would look at something like this as grounds for any kind of punitive measure? The guy made a decision clearly based on junk science and is putting both the kids and the greater public at risk because of it.
rubecube is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to rubecube For This Useful Post:
Old 03-28-2019, 08:34 PM   #1430
troutman
Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer
 
troutman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Winebar Kensington
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rubecube View Post
Trout, do you know from personal experience if the Bar Association would look at something like this as grounds for any kind of punitive measure? The guy made a decision clearly based on junk science and is putting both the kids and the greater public at risk because of it.
I think that is a slippery slope. Judges make bad decisions all of the time. Maybe in a case of extreme malpractice, otherwise I think appeals are the proper avenue.

Now, a "binding arbitration" may be hard to appeal by its very nature, but I'm sure it must be possible. Corsi or Vlad could say more about that.

My father was an esteemed Engineer and an expert witness in many complicated trials. He was often annoyed that Judges (and lawyers) were making difficult decisions about very complicated and technical matters that they have no expertise in. But, how can we find Judges that are experts in technical fields? I think we are left with Judges being informed by expert witnesses, properly certified and cross-examined.
__________________
https://www.mergenlaw.com/
http://cjsw.com/program/fossil-records/
twitter/instagram @troutman1966
troutman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2019, 09:06 PM   #1431
Shazam
Franchise Player
 
Shazam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Memento Mori
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by puckedoff View Post
Re: Red forever - Not sure how old you are but in the time before chicken pox vaccine, it was very normal for everyone to 'want' their kids to all get chicken pox and sometimes even make sure all your kids got it at the same time so you only had to deal with it once.

Obviously chicken pox is far less serious than the measles, so in that case it did work pretty well.
You know that when you get chicken pox you have it forever, right? It can come back as shingles. And you don't want shingles.
__________________
If you don't pass this sig to ten of your friends, you will become an Oilers fan.
Shazam is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Shazam For This Useful Post:
Old 03-29-2019, 08:31 AM   #1432
NuclearFart
First Line Centre
 
NuclearFart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by troutman View Post
I think that is a slippery slope. Judges make bad decisions all of the time. Maybe in a case of extreme malpractice, otherwise I think appeals are the proper avenue.

Now, a "binding arbitration" may be hard to appeal by its very nature, but I'm sure it must be possible. Corsi or Vlad could say more about that.

My father was an esteemed Engineer and an expert witness in many complicated trials. He was often annoyed that Judges (and lawyers) were making difficult decisions about very complicated and technical matters that they have no expertise in. But, how can we find Judges that are experts in technical fields? I think we are left with Judges being informed by expert witnesses, properly certified and cross-examined.
If we assume that the arbitrator is devoid of common sense and critical appraisal skills, do you view this as more of a failure by the fathers side to discredit the expert witnesses? Is there even an opportunity to do that during an arbitration process like this?

The whole "expert witness" tool in law really seems like a bit of scam to be honest. At its core it's just mercenaries willing to say whatever the legal team wants them to say at the right price.
NuclearFart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2019, 08:45 AM   #1433
troutman
Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer
 
troutman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Winebar Kensington
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NuclearFart View Post
The whole "expert witness" tool in law really seems like a bit of scam to be honest. At its core it's just mercenaries willing to say whatever the legal team wants them to say at the right price.
They are under oath, and can be cross-examined.
__________________
https://www.mergenlaw.com/
http://cjsw.com/program/fossil-records/
twitter/instagram @troutman1966
troutman is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to troutman For This Useful Post:
Old 03-29-2019, 09:08 AM   #1434
NuclearFart
First Line Centre
 
NuclearFart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Sure they're under oath, but the whole point of giving expert testimony is to give your opinion which is inherently subjective and therefore near impossible to prove perjury.

How effective is cross examination when its performed by someone who isn't an expert in the field?

The system absolutely incentivizes a biased testimony depending on who's paying the bill.
NuclearFart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2019, 09:30 AM   #1435
NuclearFart
First Line Centre
 
NuclearFart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

https://www.canadianlawyermag.com/au...experts-16891/
NuclearFart is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to NuclearFart For This Useful Post:
Old 03-29-2019, 09:42 AM   #1436
CaptainCrunch
Norm!
 
CaptainCrunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Exp:
Default

__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;

Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
CaptainCrunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2019, 10:08 AM   #1437
corporatejay
Franchise Player
 
corporatejay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Exp:
Default

The arbitrator probably can't look at external factors either and must base his/her decision on the facts presented. If the father's lawyer didn't call their own expert or do a good job on cross examination, then that's the real problem.

Edit; Just saw that the father didn't have a lawyer or call witnesses....shoulda had a lawyer.

"Unlike him, his wife had a lawyer at the hearing and called two witnesses."
__________________
corporatejay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2019, 03:29 PM   #1438
CaptainCrunch
Norm!
 
CaptainCrunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Exp:
Default

https://twitter.com/user/status/1118263283369369603
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;

Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
CaptainCrunch is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to CaptainCrunch For This Useful Post:
Old 04-16-2019, 03:32 PM   #1439
zamler
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Exp:
Default

Sue me if this has been posted before

zamler is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to zamler For This Useful Post:
Old 04-17-2019, 12:16 AM   #1440
Thor
God of Hating Twitter
 
Thor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Exp:
Default

Can't ever be posted enough, it's my go to on FB when I don't want to respond with any effort.
__________________
Allskonar fyrir Aumingja!!
Thor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:05 AM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021