American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I'm not surprised, this NY prosecution does look like a political witch hunt.

Lol, stop drinking the GOP kool-aid. Trump did some illegal s*** and he's being prosecuted for it as per U.S. law. Sure, there's a good chance he'll never see the inside of a jail cell, but there's nothing political or partisan about being arrested for breaking the law.

[PeteMoss]

Its not a slam dunk case. Setting yourself up for disappointment if you believe it is. And girly is probably right in the sense that that if he had disappeared this wouldn't be a case. Not because he's innocent of it, but because they wouldn't bother going after a white collar crime of this nature.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by direwolf

Lol, stop drinking the GOP kool-aid. Trump did some illegal s*** and he's being prosecuted for it as per U.S. law. Sure, there's a good chance he'll never see the inside of a jail cell, but there's nothing political or partisan about being arrested for breaking the law.

“If he was a nobody then he’d never be charged” is also ridiculous. Is it more likely that nobodies never get charged with things? Or that we just don’t hear about them?

[nfotiu]

Fareed Zakaria's article seemed well reasoned on this topic:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/02/opini...ria/index.html

The problem with elected DAs is that it makes it pretty tough to not at least have the appearance of political motivation.

I also agree with him that the other cases look a lot more meaty and he has done a whole lot of worse things than what is in this indictment. This case kind of looks like a bit of a reach at the moment.

If they get a conviction for this, then it will have been worth it. Getting acquitted or dismissed would be a bit of a disaster.

It is reasonable to be skeptical of whether this was a good move without being accused of drinking GOP kool aid. I would love to see him in prison for the rest of his life and never hear from him again, but not sure this is the right case to bring against him.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

“If he was a nobody then he’d never be charged” is also ridiculous. Is it more likely that nobodies never get charged with things? Or that we just don’t hear about them?

Is there a reasonably equivalent crime that a nobody could commit?

[PsYcNeT]

Imagine thinking that Trump is the only US President in the last 50 years that deserves jailtime

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Imagine thinking that Trump is the only US President in the last 50 years that deserves jailtime

Who thinks this?

[greyshep]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Imagine thinking that Trump is the only US President in the last 50 years that deserves jailtime

So lets just let all these corrupt bastards keep corrupting? When do you draw the line?

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Who thinks this?

An unquoted poster from the last page whatabouting away Trump's various crimes.

The thrust being *many* of us have been calling for jailtime (or a war crimes tribunal) for various presidents for years, but useful idiots are losing their minds because Trump is the first one actually being prosecuted (at the State level), like the lack of Federal desire or international desire to prosecute others both absolves them of their crimes and makes Trump's transgressions less viable for prosecution.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by direwolf

Lol, stop drinking the GOP kool-aid. Trump did some illegal s*** and he's being prosecuted for it as per U.S. law. Sure, there's a good chance he'll never see the inside of a jail cell, but there's nothing political or partisan about being arrested for breaking the law.

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

“If he was a nobody then he’d never be charged” is also ridiculous. Is it more likely that nobodies never get charged with things? Or that we just don’t hear about them?

It's not whether the crime deserves to be prosecuted but why Trump and why now?

That's why three-quarters of Americans are saying politics played a part. Because it has. Of course Bragg has put his entire effort into this for personal gain.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Isn't there a realistic, arguable case that every single one of them deserves jail time? The reason that there's an unstated agreement that major world leaders don't get jailed for stuff they do in the name of their country is that actually getting through a term without doing something that could result in charges for the average person would require a considerable amount of luck. I mean, obviously you have to draw the line somewhere - can't let Putin do Putin things - but presumably, say, Obama, given all the drone strikes, would never see the sky again if we wanted to go that way.

Of course that doesn't apply to this particular instance, as the things Trump is accused of were not done in his capacity as Commander in Chief or anything remotely close to that.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

It's not whether the crime deserves to be prosecuted but why Trump and why now?

because he's broken the law and because the indictment is ready now. Simple as that. Dressing it up as a political witch hunt distracts from the fact that the man has done things that might very well be illegal. How can the party of law and order be against due process? Oh sorry, I forgot - it's only the party of law and order if it's convenient to them. My bad.

This will ultimately only lead to a slap on the wrist, and of course he won't spend a single day in prison if he's convicted - but the fact that a president is at least partly held accountable for his illegal actions is a win for democracy. And given that there's other cases pending (Georgia should be ready soon, and then of course there's the documents case too), I hope the man is bombarded with indictments and court dates going forward.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by devo22

because he's broken the law and because the indictment is ready now. Simple as that. Dressing it up as a political witch hunt distracts from the fact that the man has done things that are illegal. How can the party of law and order be against due process? Oh sorry, I forgot - it's only the party of law and order if it's convenient to them. My bad.

This will ultimately only lead to a slap on the wrist, and of course he won't spend a single day in prison if he's convicted - but the fact that a president is at least partly held accountable for his illegal actions is a win for democracy. And given that there's other cases pending (Georgia should be ready soon, and then of course there's the documents case too), I hope the man is bombarded with indictments and court dates going forward.

I don't disagree with you, I'm pointing out where the 75% comes from. It's people's perception of what's happening. Both things can be true, this can be a legitimate case that Bragg really really made an effort on for political gain that others before him didn't and other after him won't. It's like his raison-d'etre for being elected.

[FlamesAddiction]

You can't remove politics from the equation any time a politician gets in trouble for something. It's politically prudent for some to prosecute Trump, just like it is politically prudent for the other side to want to let it go.

Rich and powerful people are allowed to get away with stuff all the time. They shouldn't be allowed to, but it happens. So why target Trump in particular? It likely has a little to do with that attempted coup thing and the fact he wants to get power back again. Which is fine. He pushed people too far to let his wealth and power get in the way even for other elites that would typically let it slide.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I don't disagree with you, I'm pointing out where the 75% comes from. It's people's perception of what's happening. Both things can be true, this can be a legitimate case that Bragg really really made an effort on for political gain that others before him didn't and other after him won't. It's like his raison-d'etre for being elected.

You had me for a while there, but that raison d'etre comment isn't true. Here's the NY Times article when he won the election - https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/02/n...hattan-da.html it mentions the Trump case (which was ongoing when he was elected) and nothing about how he was all about charging Trump. He shut down the case when he first got in and had some prosecutors resign because of that.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

It's not whether the crime deserves to be prosecuted but why Trump and why now?

That's why three-quarters of Americans are saying politics played a part. Because it has. Of course Bragg has put his entire effort into this for personal gain.

Because while he was in power all the investigations were being actively obstructed by his cronies. Investigators also had to prosecute the lower levels of the operation individually, get them to flip, and provide evidence to build the case against a former president. This was also a stupidly high bar because of obstruction by his cronies and supporters. Ideally any politician of any political leaning should be subject to the same laws/regulations, but the last few decades the GOP has gone full on obstructionist with the Unitary Executive doctrine. This is a far cry from when when there were still ethical Republicans during the Nixon era.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

It's not whether the crime deserves to be prosecuted but why Trump and why now?

That's why three-quarters of Americans are saying politics played a part. Because it has. Of course Bragg has put his entire effort into this for personal gain.

So if not now, then when would have been a good time to charge Trump?

[Yoho]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1643632023049838593

https://twitter.com/user/status/1643648210181791751

[Maritime Q-Scout]

You know what they should do to take the politics out of prosecution.

They should get random citizens in as a group. You know like they do when there is a jury for a trial. But they'd just listen to the evidence the DA has, and then determine if there is enough evidence to lay a charge.

That way this large group of impartial citizens, or a 'grand jury' if you will, would be the one that determines if there is a charge or an 'indictment' laid.

This would mean that even if there was a District Attorney that was out to get someone, there'd be a check and a balance to ensure there isn't a malacious or political prosecution.

Just a thought.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

So if not now, then when would have been a good time to charge Trump?

Especially considering the satute of limitations is almost up for most of these charges. How is this not a good time to charge him? If you don't do it now, you can't