American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by WilderPegasus

Maybe she, like all women in the UK, have reason to fear these people. In the UK men who identify as women are 4-5 times more likely to be convicted sex offenders than normal men and 600 times more likely than real women.

Black people and First Nations are overrepresented in prison populations in North America, so we should totally just stay away from anyone matching that description in public, and that'll solve all the problems, right?

Oh, and Catholic priests too. I hope the grocery stores stop selling to all of them, just in case.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I'm shocked there hasn't been any commentary about Scott Adam's comments and Dilbert being cast to the proverbial ash heap of history as a result. I expected a Yoyo drive-by and a full-throated defenses from Matata and White-out. Come on boys, you're letting us down.

It's in the dark web thread

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by WilderPegasus

Maybe she, like all women in the UK, have reason to fear these people. In the UK men who identify as women are 4-5 times more likely to be convicted sex offenders than normal men and 600 times more likely than real women.



https://imgur.com/VvEbDm3

Transphobic stuff like this is exhausting. Why are people like you like this? Why do you hate other people for something they couldn’t choose? How exactly is this making your life better, or is it just a way to lash out because your life sucks and trans people are easy targets?

Misleading graphics and using language like “normal men” and “real women” kind of just makes you a desperate loser, to be honest.

And this coming from someone who probably defends someone like JK Rowling more than most, as I think the reaction to her has passed a reasonable point and people are stuck basically encouraging her to say ####ty things to get mad at her for. I don’t think she’s hateful nor means harm, but she is transphobic. She does harm out of ignorance and she’s dug in and stopped listening, which is what she gets mad at others for doing, so it’s tough to have sympathy.

Posts like yours and Matata’s are from hateful people, and I’m genuinely sorry your life is such that you take out the hand you were dealt on people you view as lesser.

[WilderPegasus]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Black people and First Nations are overrepresented in prison populations in North America, so we should totally just stay away from anyone matching that description in public, and that'll solve all the problems, right?

Oh, and Catholic priests too. I hope the grocery stores stop selling to all of them, just in case.

How many priests are demanding access to women's single sex spaces? JK's issues are with regards to keeping women safe. She isn't demanding grocery stores ban men who claim to be women. She's suggesting that they should stay out of rape shelters and women's restrooms.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by WilderPegasus

Maybe she, like all women in the UK, have reason to fear these people. In the UK men who identify as women are 4-5 times more likely to be convicted sex offenders than normal men and 600 times more likely than real women.



https://imgur.com/VvEbDm3

None of that means anything without context of what these sex offences are. I mean, it wasn’t that long ago that homosexuality was a crime in the UK.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by WilderPegasus

How many priests are demanding access to women's single sex spaces? JK's issues are with regards to keeping women safe. She isn't demanding grocery stores ban men who claim to be women. She's suggesting that they should stay out of rape shelters and women's restrooms.

This #### is so tiresomely braindead. What exactly is happening in shelters and restrooms that is putting "real women" at risk?

Meanwhile, if you force a MTF trans person into a Men's restroom like you are insisting, I can't see outcomes being good.

UK really earning the TERF Island moniker.

[WilderPegasus]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

This #### is so tiresomely braindead. What exactly is happening in shelters and restrooms that is putting "real women" at risk?

Meanwhile, if you force a MTF trans person into a Men's restroom like you are insisting, I can't see outcomes being good.

What is happening? Sexual assault and lewd conduct by trans identifying males against females.

Why would the outcomes be worse if the males use the male restroom?

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by WilderPegasus

What is happening? Sexual assault and lewd conduct by trans identifying males against females.

Why would the outcomes be worse if the males use the male restroom?
we just ignored the reality that trans people exist?

Ran that one through the dog whistle translator for you.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by WilderPegasus

How many priests are demanding access to women's single sex spaces? JK's issues are with regards to keeping women safe. She isn't demanding grocery stores ban men who claim to be women. She's suggesting that they should stay out of rape shelters and women's restrooms.

So how does restricting womens washrooms to those who were female at birth help. This person who is going to commit a sexual assault is already identifying and presumably dressing as a women. Therefore this person likely uses womens facilities without notice.

How what is your proposal for rape shelters and washrooms to identify and root out trans women? How do you propose to provide services for the law abiding trans women you are now excluding from access to shelters. (A group who faces violence against them at a disproportionate rate and who are and higher risk of suicide). In addition is this identification requirement that you propose going to have a chilling affect on all shelter users who may not want to disclose detailed personal information.

Have you even though about any of this

[Cappy]

I will truly never understand the obsession CIS people (particularly men) have railing against trans issues.

You are probably a 40 year old, partially overweight accountant. Why does it matter if trans women compete in sports?

The bathroom issue is just so easily solvable. Most places now have gender neutral bathrooms with separate stalls and communal sinks. How is this an issue?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by WilderPegasus

How many priests are demanding access to women's single sex spaces? JK's issues are with regards to keeping women safe. She isn't demanding grocery stores ban men who claim to be women. She's suggesting that they should stay out of rape shelters and women's restrooms.

If a someone intends to rape a women in a restroom I don't think they are going to be overly concerned about breaking a minor rule about whether men can use a washroom or not, by definition if they are planning on a rape they arent picking a busy washroom with a line up, very few women are raped in washrooms (not exactly the most private setting for a violent noisy crime) but thus far they have all been raped by cis men who dont seem to worry about going to all the bother of putting on a dress just to enter a washroom they can walk into easily in jeans and cowboy boots already, women are no more or less at risk of rape due to the rules of who can use a washroom, the risk is the existence of sexually violent men who are prepared to go to jail for 10 years or so for a violent stranger rape

It is a reasonable argument to make that some women are uncomfortable sharing a washroom with transgendered women but the whole rape aspect is absurd

[Scroopy Noopers]

This is why we’re just going floor to ceiling stall doors in shared bathrooms with none dedicated to males or females in new buildings. With additional single use universal washrooms. Because it really doesn’t matter, and only the labeling is created paranoia.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

This #### is so tiresomely braindead. What exactly is happening in shelters and restrooms that is putting "real women" at risk?

Meanwhile, if you force a MTF trans person into a Men's restroom like you are insisting, I can't see outcomes being good.

UK really earning the TERF Island moniker.

I’ve no issue with restrooms and I have no issue with shelters. It doesn’t affect me now.

As someone who back in the 70s may have benefited from the services of a shelter - as a child, but didnt. I’ve no idea what “is happening” in shelters, but I wouldn’t and don’t take a dogmatic position on something I know nothing about. Certainly not while I know first hand just how serious and dangerous the predicament can get. My Mom’s life was in danger but luckily we had friends who provided refuge.

I believe there are genuine fears around the shelters issue. But by the same measure, the abuse trans people get is a real thing. I’m haunted by the image of a beautiful young 16 year old girl, who looked so happy who violently lost her life most likely at the hands of transphobic teenagers.

Public policy is not keeping up with society and this is impacting on the risks all stakeholders face. Culture wars and dogmatism - regardless of from which side and stakeholder interests are only making the argument worse and increasing the risks of the most vulnerable people in our society.

It is all too often coming down to point scoring and winning the internet and your comment on the UK, is an example of that.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I would like someone to explain:

1. What, specifically, are the genuine fears, or plausible fears, about trans women in bathrooms? What, specifically, is a thing that has a realistic possibility of happening, in real life, that warrants fear?

2. Same question regarding shelters.

... I mean, are people really concerned that a woman will flee an abusive partner to a shelter, only to have him follow her there disguised in a dress and a wig? Are you concerned that random men will be pretending to be women in order to gain access to these shelters to engage in sexual assault? No vague language about there being "real things to worry about" - I want the exact hypothetical scenario that I'm supposed to see as a "genuine" concern.

I actually get - not necessarily agree with, but at least conceptually understand - the concern about transgender women competing against cis women in sports. But in these areas I'm just not following you.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Cappy

I will truly never understand the obsession CIS people (particularly men) have railing against trans issues.

You are probably a 40 year old, partially overweight accountant. Why does it matter if trans women compete in sports?

The bathroom issue is just so easily solvable. Most places now have gender neutral bathrooms with separate stalls and communal sinks. How is this an issue?

Okay, that one is a little more problematic, though, isn't it? Like, if my CIS daughter trained her whole life to be a snowboarder in the Olympics, wouldn't she be at a great - and unfair - disadvantage to a MTF trans athlete? Only mentioning that because you brought it up, btw. I'm not out here to chip away at any arguments in support of anything less than total tolerance and acceptance, but in the sports example you brought up it's the one thing I can think of that does create an actual problem for CIS people that I'm not sure we've figured out how to address yet.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I would like someone to explain:

1. What, specifically, are the genuine fears, or plausible fears, about trans women in bathrooms? What, specifically, is a thing that has a realistic possibility of happening, in real life, that warrants fear?

2. Same question regarding shelters.

... I mean, are people really concerned that a woman will flee an abusive partner to a shelter, only to have him follow her there disguised in a dress and a wig? Are you concerned that random men will be pretending to be women in order to gain access to these shelters to engage in sexual assault? No vague language about there being "real things to worry about" - I want the exact hypothetical scenario that I'm supposed to see as a "genuine" concern.

Why would you want the exact hypothetical scenario on shelters from a forum populated mainly by middle aged men? We in all likelihood can’t answer that.

It may be better to go to a site and ask a range of people more likely to require require shelter.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

Why would you want the exact hypothetical scenario on shelters from a forum populated mainly by middle aged men? We in all likelihood can’t answer that.

It may be better to go to a site and ask a range of people more likely to require require shelter.

Yeah, Corsi, just go to forum.batteredwomen.com and ask there. Why would you ask in the place you already belong in the thread we're discussing the issue?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

Why would you want the exact hypothetical scenario on shelters from a forum populated mainly by middle aged men? We in all likelihood can’t answer that.

It may be better to go to a site and ask a range of people more likely to require require shelter.

Because I don't believe there are "genuine fears about the shelters issue" unless someone can give me an example of what there should be genuine fears about. It makes no sense to me, and unless someone can explain it to me in terms I understand, I simply suspect that it's bull####.

Additionally, I do not care what the source of an explanation is when all I'm asking for is one plausible scenario that makes me think, "oh, I can see that happening sure - you're right, that would be a problem". This shouldn't be difficult or require an expert in the administration of shelters to do; I'm not asking for a peer-reviewed study or actual data here. The people, you included, saying that there are "genuine fears" that you believe in should presumably be able to articulate them - I'm not even asking for an example that actually happened, just something that MIGHT happen that seems realistic.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Yeah, Corsi, just go to forum.batteredwomen.com and ask there. Why would you ask in the place you already belong in the thread we're discussing the issue?

My point is, we can’t in all likely possibly provide the level of insight that is being asked for.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

My point is, we can’t in all likely possibly provide the level of insight that is being asked for.

If you can't even dream up a possible situation that could arise that could possibly be a problem in real life, then why say, "I believe there are genuine fears around the shelters issue"? Why believe in something that you not only are unaware of an example of, but can't even think of a possible example of? Hell, what even IS the "shelters issue" you were referring to, in your mind?