The intermixing of red and blue would make a traditional civil war impossible, and yes I think a lot of the poseurs are ultimately all talk and no action.
What happens though if/when a presidential election is clearly stolen by states ignoring vote results on patently flimsy pretexts? And let’s say the Supreme Court has confirmed that legislatures have the ultimate say on how elections are executed. Are the blue people just going to roll over and accept this?
If there is no recourse, revolt is still an option. Maybe not against neighbours, but against state capitals and institutions? Defended by other people, who may actually be neighbours. So do you end up in a civil war anyway?
I can't see the left revolting. Just can't see it.
They just reversed abortion and what happened? It something you'd think they'd be storming the Bastille over.
What happened? A few demonstrations and they're not going to even come out to vote tomorrow. When polled, abortion rights is like the 8th most important issue. The state of the democracy is even lower.
Even if it was a full-blown Trump dictatorship, as long as taxes, grocceries and gas prices are low, everything is a-okay to the average American.
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I can't see the left revolting. Just can't see it.
They just reversed abortion and what happened? It something you'd think they'd be storming the Bastille over.
What happened? A few demonstrations and they're not going to even come out to vote tomorrow. When polled, abortion rights is like the 8th most important issue. The state of the democracy is even lower.
Even if it was a full-blown Trump dictatorship, as long as taxes, grocceries and gas prices are low, everything is a-okay to the average American.
The left isn't really a sizeable faction in U.S. politics. They'd be crushed and jailed immediately if they pulled something even remotely resembling Jan. 6th.
If you're referring to liberals, well they're still under the belief that the U.S.' democratic institutions are strong enough to resist a fascist takeover (they're not), and/or that civil discourse will inevitably win the day (it won't).
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If you're referring to liberals, well they're still under the belief that the U.S.' democratic institutions are strong enough to resist a fascist takeover (they're not), and/or that civil discourse will inevitably win the day (it won't).
I'm kind of torn here because if we're being fair, the Trump years were absolutely a massive test to those democratic institutions and the country did, in fact, survive despite him and his cronies doing everything possible to undermine them. So they maybe do deserve a little credit for resilience.
But I'm also a pessimist and am tempted to say "yeah but the cracks that all caused aren't going to get repaired so it's more just a case of a delayed collapse".
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I'm kind of torn here because if we're being fair, the Trump years were absolutely a massive test to those democratic institutions and the country did, in fact, survive despite him and his cronies doing everything possible to undermine them. So they maybe do deserve a little credit for resilience.
But I'm also a pessimist and am tempted to say "yeah but the cracks that all caused aren't going to get repaired so it's more just a case of a delayed collapse".
Democratic institutions only have strength when they have legitimacy, and we're seeing pretty much all of that legitimacy being destroyed in real time.
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I'm kind of torn here because if we're being fair, the Trump years were absolutely a massive test to those democratic institutions and the country did, in fact, survive despite him and his cronies doing everything possible to undermine them. So they maybe do deserve a little credit for resilience.
But I'm also a pessimist and am tempted to say "yeah but the cracks that all caused aren't going to get repaired so it's more just a case of a delayed collapse".
Yes, but the Republicans have spent 2 years grinding away at the safeguards that by the slimmest of margins saved their democracy.
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I'm kind of torn here because if we're being fair, the Trump years were absolutely a massive test to those democratic institutions and the country did, in fact, survive despite him and his cronies doing everything possible to undermine them. So they maybe do deserve a little credit for resilience.
But I'm also a pessimist and am tempted to say "yeah but the cracks that all caused aren't going to get repaired so it's more just a case of a delayed collapse".
The pessimist in you is likely correct. Last time there were sane people at the state level who certified their election results and, in states were Biden won, correctly sent electors to Washington to elect Joe Biden. This time around there may be states controlled by election-denying Trump loyalists who will simply ignore the results and send electors to vote for Trump anyhow.
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U.S. democracy has always been tedious at best. From lack of civil rights until modern times, gerrymandering, voter intimidation, restrictive voting laws that target minorities and the economic underclass, and hyper-lobbyism. Not to mention, how many healthy democracies have had 6 elected presidents shot (4 killed), and two that officially died of natural causes but may have actually been poisoned. Not to mention how every past president typically has several assassination plots foiled.
Things seem bad now, I won't deny that, but it has always been a weak democracy.
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Last edited by FlamesAddiction; 11-07-2022 at 05:33 PM.
Yeah, the US has never stood for democratic rights as much as it has stood for the rights of private capital. That's the real heart of the American ethos.
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Yeah, the US has never stood for democratic rights as much as it has stood for the rights of private capital. That's the real heart of the American ethos.
Right and if capital is flowing all is fine even for liberals. Remember Reagan Democrats?
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Right and if capital is flowing all is fine even for liberals. Remember Reagan Democrats?
The Democrats are a right of center party relative to the rest of the world, so that isn't a surprise. There are some left elements of course, but as a whole, the party is just as focused on private capital as the Republicans. The left elements only exist in the Democratic party because it's a two-party system and there is no where else to go and the mainstream Dems accept them because they need the numbers.
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