American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

What about while in labor? A fully developed baby that's about to be born. That's ok? Simple yes or no answer please

A lot of this fearmongering and nonsense came up when VA Governor removed limits on abortions with people accusing him of legalizing infanticide.

https://www.whsv.com/content/news/Go...505139131.html

Northam's comments were spot on and articulate why there is no need to legally limit when an abortion would occur. So yeah, no it shouldn't be just a woman's choice that late, and it isn't, even if there isn't a specific law preventing it.

The statement said “No woman seeks a third trimester abortion except in the case of tragic or difficult circumstances, such as a nonviable pregnancy or in the event of severe fetal abnormalities, and the governor’s comments were limited to the actions physicians would take in the event that a woman in those circumstances went into labor.”

The governor was a pediatric neurosurgeon so I think his take should be respected

[Wormius]

Are you still beating your wife?? YES OR NO!!?

[Harry Lime]

I always thought that it came down to whether you thought the soul lived in the brain, the heart, or a sperm egg gumbo. Personally I think brain, which only becomes viable after the first trimester. The sperm egg gumbo people are a bit nuts, imo. The heart people a bit sweet and naive.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by jonesy

This really isn't true. Babies in the womb can hear and respond to music and their mother's voice. They have measurable brain waves. They can feel pain. When doing fetal surgery they are sometimes sedated directly or through the mother's general anesthesia to avoid inflicting pain. This is scientifically proven. It may not be convenient but it is the reality.

Whether you are for or against abortion, it is still true, which is unsettling for many.

Much like any medical procedure, Nobody who needs an abortion is fired up to have one.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Much like any medical procedure, Nobody who needs an abortion is fired up to have one.

Agree, but you snipped out the part I was actually responding to.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Are you still beating your wife?? YES OR NO!!?

I remember when Nenshi used that reference to suggest a question wasn't fair and our stupid city lost their minds, suggesting it was an inappropriate thing to say. I was stunned at the reaction. I thought it was common knowledge.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I remember when Nenshi used that reference to suggest a question wasn't fair and our stupid city lost their minds, suggesting it was an inappropriate thing to say. I was stunned at the reaction. I thought it was common knowledge.

Well there's one group of people who are that stupid, then there's another group of people who found it politically expedient to pretend to be that stupid because they were anti-Nenshi.

[dino7c]

totally anecdotal and not even the same country but my mother in law who has voted conservative her entire life have vowed never to again because of Roe and Canadian conservatives applauding it being overturned and supporting similar ideas

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by SebC

Well there's one group of people who are that stupid, then there's another group of people who found it politically expedient to pretend to be that stupid because they were anti-Nenshi.

Oh yeah, for sure. Just wanted to bring up the sincere and insincere stupidity of that political moment again.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I remember when Nenshi used that reference to suggest a question wasn't fair and our stupid city lost their minds, suggesting it was an inappropriate thing to say. I was stunned at the reaction. I thought it was common knowledge.

That was my point with respect to the obnoxious hypothetical question posed earlier.

No women are going into the throes of labor and trying to get an abortion. That is some kind of reality show “oops, I didn’t know I was pregnant until I started having contractions on the toilet” scenarios.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I remember when Nenshi used that reference to suggest a question wasn't fair and our stupid city lost their minds, suggesting it was an inappropriate thing to say. I was stunned at the reaction. I thought it was common knowledge.

My favourite one of these was the local politician I think in DC who used the word "nig-gardly" completely accurately and was either fired or resigned shortly thereafter.

EDIT: Hahahaha, well apparently CP is on board with his detractors; it censored that word and I had to add a hyphen.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

My favourite one of these was the local politician I think in DC who used the word "nig-gardly" completely accurately and was either fired or resigned shortly thereafter.

EDIT: Hahahaha, well apparently CP is on board with his detractors; it censored that word and I had to add a hyphen.

I believe it was an english teacher, his students complained

[Gemnoble]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

That would be almost full term. Lungs are the last thing to develop.

About 5 months with extreme and extensive care that could lead to disability. 6 months with an actual real world chance of survival.

[Gemnoble]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

What about while in labor? A fully developed baby that's about to be born. That's ok? Simple yes or no answer please

In those circumstances no woman would end a pregnancy, they wouldn't go 9 months and change their mind. Such pregnancies would only be ended due to severe medical issues or risk to the Mother. And at that point a c-section would likely save both, for however long a medically compromised infant may live.

But to answer your question, yeah if a woman wants to go through a birthing procedure in those instances or undergo alternative treatment, then that's her decision

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

ok lets slow this down a second.

i think there's a continuum where abortions go from being medical care and a womans choice, to, yeah, kind of murdery.

I will answer your question, in every circumstance it is up to the woman. But I think we have an alternative now that helps everyone, thanks to modern science.

It should be mandatory that all males by the age of 16 have a vasectomy. Males above the age of 16 would have to have a vasectomy within 3 months of the law being passed. Males could (if they want, it is their body after all) donate sperm that could be used at a future date to procreate. This very simple, non-intrusive law would accomplish a number of objectives for the pro-life crowd.

1) it would severely limit the number of unwanted pregnancies. When a man wanted to procreate he would have to find a willing partner who also wanted to procreate. Abortions would be reduced significantly.
2) it would be cheaper. The amount of money that women spend on birth control would be almost nil for any woman above the age of 16. This would result in huge monetary savings and it would relieve strain on our health care system as a result of massively reduced number of abortions and birth control procedures (like IUD’s)
3) for the Christian Right, it would likely result in a significant increase in traditional nuclear families, as a man would have to find a woman who wants to procreate before they could (and presumably he would want to stick around).

Of course if a woman wanted to have a baby, she could go on her own accord and get sperm as she would be willingly, with consent, be getting pregnant.

I say get your “pro-life” friends White Out 403 on board with my approach and it can be a win win for everyone.

[S0ck_Pupp3t]

One of the problems of this issue is that nobody who has one ever talks about it... I can relate.

My wife and I had an elective abortion almost 10 years ago. I've only told one person - she's told nobody. While we have zero regrets (and several other healthy children) it was a difficult period and made more challenging by having to do it without any external support.

Thankfully here in Calgary an abortion is safe, legal and easily available. Every women should have that same opportunity.

Somebody you know has had an abortion and they've probably never told you. So be mindful of that fact when discussing the issue. Some of our family members have said just horrible things - i don't know that I'll ever forgive them.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by S0ck_Pupp3t

Somebody you know has had an abortion and they've probably never told you.

I believe this is true and that it may be the last person you’d think.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I will answer your question, in every circumstance it is up to the woman. But I think we have an alternative now that helps everyone, thanks to modern science.

It should be mandatory that all males by the age of 16 have a vasectomy. Males above the age of 16 would have to have a vasectomy within 3 months of the law being passed. Males could (if they want, it is their body after all) donate sperm that could be used at a future date to procreate. This very simple, non-intrusive law would accomplish a number of objectives for the pro-life crowd.

1) it would severely limit the number of unwanted pregnancies. When a man wanted to procreate he would have to find a willing partner who also wanted to procreate. Abortions would be reduced significantly.
2) it would be cheaper. The amount of money that women spend on birth control would be almost nil for any woman above the age of 16. This would result in huge monetary savings and it would relieve strain on our health care system as a result of massively reduced number of abortions and birth control procedures (like IUD’s)
3) for the Christian Right, it would likely result in a significant increase in traditional nuclear families, as a man would have to find a woman who wants to procreate before they could (and presumably he would want to stick around).

Of course if a woman wanted to have a baby, she could go on her own accord and get sperm as she would be willingly, with consent, be getting pregnant.

I say get your “pro-life” friends White Out 403 on board with my approach and it can be a win win for everyone.

Wow. I'm pro life now lol. You learn something new every day

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Wow. I'm pro life now lol. You learn something new every day

Do you support my idea? You said abortion can be murder. My solution eliminates the possibility of that for any male above the age of 16 who is having sex, so do you support it?

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Do you support my idea? You said abortion can be murder. My solution eliminates the possibility of that for any male above the age of 16 who is having sex, so do you support it?

Do I support forced sterilization? No, lol, no I don't. Settle down there, Hitler