The intellectual dark web

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Coach

I'd actually argue that blackface at is most basic level is one of the most purely racist acts there are, by the definition of racism as systemic oppression of a people based on their ethnicity. It is actively taking employment from that community by having someone pretending to be a part of that community instead, and stems from all sorts of racist ideas.

But I'd also argue that rube cube's note is too broad to apply to racism. Attributing traits due to skin color, sure. But attributing attributes to ancestry is different, and doesn't have to be racist depending on context. If you know someone's ancestry (ie their specific culture), you may make an improper assumption about someones skill at something, but without being racist.

I used "ancestry" mostly to include ethnic Jews. I make fun of where people are from all the time. My best friend is Polish (gross).

[Coach]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I used "ancestry" mostly to include ethnic Jews. I make fun of where people are from all the time. My best friend is Polish (gross).

Would you say you feel comfortable to use this type of "feigned" vulgarity towards the Polish because they are white people? I doubt I would be able to say that someone being from Yemen is "gross" without being pretty heavily derided.

FTR, I don't think anyone from anywhere is inherently gross, even as a joke really (okay, Edmonton). I would think that sort of comment can only exist because they are your friend, nothing much to do with them being Polish or anything else.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Coach

Would you say you feel comfortable to use this type of "feigned" vulgarity towards the Polish because they are white people? I doubt I would be able to say that someone being from Yemen is "gross" without being pretty heavily derided.

FTR, I don't think anyone from anywhere is inherently gross, even as a joke really (okay, Edmonton). I would think that sort of comment can only exist because they are your friend, nothing much to do with them being Polish or anything else.

Oh 100%. I make fun of the English all the time as well because I'm half English and they're just awful.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Oh 100%. I make fun of the English all the time as well because I'm half English and they're just awful.

So you don't actually make fun of where people are from all the time, you just bust on your friends and your own heritage. That's a far cry from telling random people where they're from is gross or basically any kind of bigotry.

I have a friend whose family is Danish. Sometimes we call him a viking or talk in some variable Scandinavian accent with him. But I would never do that to someone who I just met and learned was Swedish. It may not be overly insulting or classified as racist to BORK BORK at a Swedish person, but they'll probably think you're a dink. No different if an American starts spouting a bunch of Canadian stereotypes thinking they are funny.

Point is there is no hard and fast rules for these things. Context matters. Even blackface. People try to tell me Tropic Thunder couldn't be made now and I disagree. The joke is on the racism, it's not a racist joke. It just takes tact, discipline and intelligence to do it right.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Coach

Point is there is no hard and fast rules for these things. Context matters. Even blackface. People try to tell me Tropic Thunder couldn't be made now and I disagree. The joke is on the racism, it's not a racist joke. It just takes tact, discipline and intelligence to do it right.

This is true. And I think part of the problem is that people from across the ideological spectrum have decided that rules are important for very different reasons. “The rules” are basically used as a pawn to make an argument.

Someone might take two situations which seem to be treated differently without understanding or acknowledging the context and say, “Why is this OK but not that? if that’s OK then I should be able to do this. Isn’t that the rule?”

Someone else might say “This person did or said this thing, and the rule is that the thing is not OK, so this person is not OK. Isn’t that the rule?”

In both cases, context makes a pretty huge difference. People want to make up definitions for words and play in the very nitpicky-realm of what specifically is or isn’t ok, or play dumb to bait people into saying something that will validate them, but all it does is move people away from a simpler truth.

Someone could look at Tropic Thunder and say “not OK, because blackface” while someone else says “they did it, so blackface must be OK” and someone else says “it’s not technically blackface because it doesn’t follow the specific rules to determine the impact of the usage of blackface” or whatever. And the simplest explanation is that it’s ok because of the context.

Going back to the Rogan thing, it’s a simple fact: he used an anti-semitic stereotype. Does that make him anti-semitic? No. He might be, or not be. But, given the context, we still know it wasn’t an OK thing to use. Instead of just acknowledging it, the conversation has devolved into “is Rogan a NAZI?” “is it racist if I don’t like CHICKEN FEET?” “actually, white privilege is RACIST” “sorry, that doesn’t TECHNICALLY fit the dictionary definition of RACISM.”

End of the day, it’s a lot of people obsessing over the rules because following the rules (or showing you don’t follow the rules) is more important than bothering to understand a concept to a level where context answers all of these questions for you.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Going back to the Rogan thing, it’s a simple fact: he used an anti-semitic stereotype. Does that make him anti-semitic? No. He might be, or not be. But, given the context, we still know it wasn’t an OK thing to use. Instead of just acknowledging it, the conversation has devolved into “is Rogan a NAZI?” “is it racist if I don’t like CHICKEN FEET?” “actually, white privilege is RACIST” “sorry, that doesn’t TECHNICALLY fit the dictionary definition of RACISM.”



End of the day, it’s a lot of people obsessing over the rules because following the rules (or showing you don’t follow the rules) is more important than bothering to understand a concept to a level where context answers all of these questions for you.

It's also not the first time he's been busted using anti-Semitic tropes. I also don't think he's deliberately anti-Semitic. I just think he's a dumb baboon.

That said, he has a massive platform. So I don't think it's unreasonable to expect him to be more careful about this stuff.

[rubecube]

Nm. Apparently I'm too drunk to figure out how to embed.


https://youtube.com/watch?v=Fq4WEnaH...SIkaIECMiOmarE

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1625249621168779264

another eww

[Fuzz]

What in the WTF is going on in his head?

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

What in the WTF is going on in his head?

It's lobsters all the way down.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

What in the WTF is going on in his head?

A healthy mix of prescription drugs, big pay cheques, and social media accolades. That combo must result in just a constant buzzing noise. I seriously doubt he has the ability to form new thoughts. He just says the same old ones louder and louder.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by blankall

A healthy mix of prescription drugs, big pay cheques, and social media accolades. That combo must result in just a constant buzzing noise. I seriously doubt he has the ability to form new thoughts. He just says the same old ones louder and louder.

prescription?? come on

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1628292293173342208

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

https://twitter.com/user/status/1628292293173342208

I, for the life of me, can't figure out what's tyrannical about that.

Somewhat related, I've come to the realization that "woke" means "not being an a**hole".

And man, are a**holes angry that society tells them they shouldn't be a**holes.

[PsYcNeT]

"Woke" has just replaced "Political Correctness" as the rallying cry for ammosexuals, and "Political Correctness" was always analogous with "showing others basic respect" so that tracks.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

https://twitter.com/user/status/1628292293173342208

He's obviously crossed over into legitimate senility at this point, eh? This is old man yells at cloud ramped up to absurdity.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Coach

Would you say you feel comfortable to use this type of "feigned" vulgarity towards the Polish because they are white people? I doubt I would be able to say that someone being from Yemen is "gross" without being pretty heavily derided.

FTR, I don't think anyone from anywhere is inherently gross, even as a joke really (okay, Edmonton). I would think that sort of comment can only exist because they are your friend, nothing much to do with them being Polish or anything else.

.

On a very fundamental level, jokes are part of human socialization.

We make jokes to understand one another, to process major events, to make sense of things - if we can find a humourous take on a situation, we can process it better and integrate it into our lives.

Some things are insensitive. Some things are ignorant. Some things are pernicious. Some things are jokes.

Not being able to joke about annoying things other people (and yes, other groups) do only fosters resentment. There’s nothing wrong with jokes.

What’s wrong is violence, denying people jobs or housing, burning crosses on lawns - obvious stuff.

I just don’t think we should be looking at the world we’ve built, at the country we’ve built, and go too far concluding we’re all perniciously racist when we’re clearly not.

[TheIronMaiden]

What's next, asking folks not to flush tampons down the toilet so they don't damage the plumbing? What else? not lifting the seat before pissing all over it.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

I, for the life of me, can't figure out what's tyrannical about that.

Somewhat related, I've come to the realization that "woke" means "not being an a**hole".

And man, are a**holes angry that society tells them they shouldn't be a**holes.

Not being an assh-le means not being an assh-le. "Woke" frankly is something else, and I'm only able to classify it in context. When someone like JBP uses it, "woke" covers the spectrum from 'annoying Twitter mob' to 'advocates for common decency'. It's like turning on a faucet with a calcified aerator, that sh-t just gets everywhere.

"Hey, you can't park here."
"Up yours, woke moralists."
"I'm the Fire Marshal, you're parked in a fire lane."

In any case, it's performative at this point, it has to be. "Use only as much as you need" just makes sense. Now, having the guy in the black button up in the bar lavatory shouting "p-ssy p-ssy p-ssy", spritzing you with unwanted AXE body spray, and giving you a tiny square of paper towel, then expecting a ten dollar tip... well, I don't know if that's tyrannical, but I do know it's assh-lerry at its finest.

[darockwilder]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

https://twitter.com/user/status/1628292293173342208

Might as well just use 4 arm lengths and light the rest on fire to stick to the "woke moralists".