2020 Blue Jays Season Thread

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

His launch angle has been a problem since the minors, where it wasn't exposed as much by high end pitchers.

If he was mashing balls into the ground while working counts with good plate discipline, I wouldn't be worried. But he looks pretty lost at the plate and his discipline is nonexistant.

Bingo.

He looks like he has almost no plan up there and very little pitch recognition.

He hits the ball hard still, but that's it. Add to that his terrible commitment to the level of fitness required of a professional athlete, his shoddy D so far and his lack of value on the base paths and it's a real mess. It's probably going to take him a while to figure things out at this point. I'm talking years here.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Bingo.

He looks like he has almost no plan up there and very little pitch recognition.

He hits the ball hard still, but that's it. Add to that his terrible commitment to the level of fitness required of a professional athlete, his shoddy D so far and his lack of value on the base paths and it's a real mess. It's probably going to take him a while to figure things out at this point. I'm talking years here.

lol

That's it? That's the ####ing gift! He's 21 and they can work on his launch angle. But how many other 21 year olds are there out there who are pounding out grounders at over 100 mph's off the bat?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

My goodness, is Vladmir Guerrero the biggest prospect flop in franchise history? What the hell happened to this kid?

this is flat out ridiculous

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

lol

That's it? That's the ####ing gift! He's 21 and they can work on his launch angle. But how many other 21 year olds are there out there who are pounding out grounders at over 100 mph's off the bat?

Not many, that's why there is still hope, but like I said it's going to take time. Time for him to work on the launch angle and also his defense at first base. That defense cost the Jays a win last night.

And the whole time he's working on those things you hope his awful fitness level doesn't start to eat away at his health leading to injuries.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Not many, that's why there is still hope, but like I said it's going to take time. Time for him to work on the launch angle and also his defense at first base. That defense cost the Jays a win last night.

And the whole time he's working on those things you hope his awful fitness level doesn't start to eat away at his health leading to injuries.

The launch angle could be a simple tweak. It could be something as simple as the fact that he is standing more straight up in the batter's box (just saying that as an example, though it is my personal, baseless opinion)

The defense is a question of confidence - he isn't a bad defender. But he was moved over to 1st at the start of the season, without even a normal spring training, so he is learning on the job. I have no concerns there. I do think Montoyo needs to get tougher with these guys though.

He is not the 'project' you are making him out to be, IMO.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The launch angle could be a simple tweak. It could be something as simple as the fact that he is standing more straight up in the batter's box (just saying that as an example, though it is my personal, baseless opinion)

The defense is a question of confidence - he isn't a bad defender. But he was moved over to 1st at the start of the season, without even a normal spring training, so he is learning on the job. I have no concerns there. I do think Montoyo needs to get tougher with these guys though.

He is not the 'project' you are making him out to be, IMO.

Even if he fixes his launch angle, his approach is atrocious right now. It's more than a little fix that is gonna right the ship for the kid. Might be between the ears.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Even if he fixes his launch angle, his approach is atrocious right now. It's more than a little fix that is gonna right the ship for the kid. Might be between the ears.

Two words: confidence

[Enoch Root]

A great comparison for Guerrero is Roberto Alomar Jr: grew up around major leaguers, was always touted to be a superstar, and hit the league at 20.

Their 20 year old numbers are almost identical (Guerraro's are marginally better).

At 21 and 22, Alomar didn't struggle the way Vladdy has, but he didn't fully blossom either. It was when he went to Toronto, and was surrounded by an all-star team of vets, that he blossomed.

At the age of 24.

Writing Guerrero off, at 21, is just laughable

[Strange Brew]

Writing off Guerrero is silly but the Alomar comparison doesn’t really work for me.

There are lots of highly touted young players that can’t make the final jump to being a big league star. With Guerrero it’s whether the commitment is there to match the raw talent. Alomar had both in abundance. Maybe Vlad ends up more like Ben Grieve.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

A great comparison for Guerrero is Roberto Alomar Jr: grew up around major leaguers, was always touted to be a superstar, and hit the league at 20.

Their 20 year old numbers are almost identical (Guerraro's are marginally better).

At 21 and 22, Alomar didn't struggle the way Vladdy has, but he didn't fully blossom either. It was when he went to Toronto, and was surrounded by an all-star team of vets, that he blossomed.

At the age of 24.

Writing Guerrero off, at 21, is just laughable

I havent written him off Im just saying if he makes it, it will take time which I dont know why we're seemingly in disagreement because you just gave an example of a guy figuring it out at 24 years old for comparison.

I guess the disagreement comes from you seeming to think ive written him off.

[Enoch Root]

There have been multiple comments in this thread that he might be a bust - my posts aren't directed at you, but at the conversation

As for taking time, a lot of fans seem unable to accept that (thus the bust comments)

[bluejays]

It's hard to agree with anyone saying he's a definite bust now because he just has had an off year this year during a pandemic. However, it's very fair to say he's not meeting his trajectory. It is 100% clear he's very overweight and hasn't taken that seriously. Fact.


Personally, with him it was always forseeable he was bigger boned, and he always had to watch his weight, so it's conceivable management worked with him to get in the weight room. Regardless, when he's let himself go this quick, it's shows a bad level of commitment to getting that much better. So it's very conceivable he won't reach his ceiling. Whether that falters even worse remains to be seen but management has to be hard on him so he get back on track for next season. Baseball has loads and loads of guys who never live up to expectations in a very dramatic way. Year after year it seems like guys in Baseball America's top 5 who were can't miss prospects turn into busts very early on. He's naturally talented, but for whatever reason in baseball things can go south very quickly if you don't make the appropriate corrections.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by zukes

Wow! Settle down. They just need to fix his launch angle and he'll be fine. The bad defense is likely because he is carrying his at-bats with him. He is absolutely smashing balls a lot of the time. The problem is, the ground is taking the brunt of too many of those.

The bad defense is because he’s carrying too much of himself with him. I’ve only been watching sports for 26 years, and while I do appreciate that fat guys are as much a part of the history of baseball as sunflower seeds and segregation, he’s one of the two or three worst conditioned “professional” athletes I’ve ever seen.

It’s 2020. There’s no excuse for it. We discovered kale and quinoa at least ten years ago. Dude is going to cost himself $300M if he can’t get his weight under control.

Watch Vladdy’s home run trot and watch Bichette’s - you can literally see Guerrero’s jersey catching his excess poundage.. They’ve already moved him from 3B to 1B to mostly DH - the only place left to put him is Nose Tackle.

I’m willing to allow for the Covid Quarantine playing a role in undoing all of the kid’s hard work in the off season. But if he shows up this heavy next spring, his major league career will be in jeopardy.

[Enoch Root]

The Jays are 6 and 9 so far. They could EASILY have won at least 2 of those losses. There are 8 teams in the American League that are above .500 so if they had hung on to two of those games, they would be in a playoff spot.

So after the ugliest game possibly in franchise history and a day off, they come out to avenge. What happens? Roark walks the first batter then gives up a giant 2-run homer to start the game.

Oh well, trying to stay positive.

[flamingred89]

Jesus. How do the Jays let a runner score from first on a single?!

Roark is getting lit up early in the season.

[Enoch Root]

more bad defense results in a run with 2 out in the 2nd. 3-0

[savemedrzaius]

I love watching Vladdy run the bases. It's beautiful. Like a gazelle.

[jayswin]

lol

[flamingred89]

And Vladdy finds the gap. Proceeds to turn a sure double into almost getting picked off at first. The horse has been beaten dead but the dude needs to get in shape haha.

[savemedrzaius]

Rowdy! Fat baseball players 4 life!!