2022/2023 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

Why wouldn't 'someone else' be the better option? Remind me what has Treliving done that is so great?

This is a go nowhere question but I’ll bite, I guess.

What do you consider to be ‘great’ and in what context?

For me the answer that question is Treliving has been better than his predecessors. So unless there is someone available to the Flames who will be an improvement over Treliving, then the argument is a stupid one. But it’s one that more than a few posters can’t seem to wrap their myopic small world views around.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Why?

He has proven to be able to make shrewd trades and under his guidance drafting and development has been the best since the Fletcher era.

I say give him the keys and let him do a full rebuild opposed to cutting it short like they did in 2015.

Agreed. Its what should of been done last year but now the situation has escalated

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I'd be open to moving Vladar.

I like him but if some team in dire need of goaltending came offered a good package for him then you move him.

He's not that good that you're sweating that he becomes a star starter or anything like that IMO.

I like vladar but I'd prefer the blue chip goalie start his Flames career. We need a guy like that who can give this team confidence, badly

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Who do you want to take over?

I don't know characteristics of specific individuals but I would like a GM that would value speed and skill. Hard to win in a 32 team league but give us entertainment value.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

I don't know characteristics of specific individuals but I would like a GM that would value speed and skill. Hard to win in a 32 team league but give us entertainment value.

Why do you think Treliving doesn’t value speed and skill? That’s as a ridiculous assumption I’ve seen here, ever.

That’s like saying a chef doesn’t value salt and pepper.

[SuperMatt18]

I think Treliving has priortized skill.

Picks like Coronato, Valimaki, etc were all prioritizing skill.

Speed/Skating on the other hand...I do wonder how high that ranks on the organization priority.

We haven't really drafted many burners during Tre's time as GM.

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by TOfan

This is a go nowhere question but I’ll bite, I guess.

What do you consider to be ‘great’ and in what context?

For me the answer that question is Treliving has been better than his predecessors. So unless there is someone available to the Flames who will be an improvement over Treliving, then the argument is a stupid one. But it’s one that more than a few posters can’t seem to wrap their myopic small world views around.

So is Treliving better than Feaster? Most people on here believe Feaster was terrible, but guess who has a stanley cup? What do you value as a GM? Yzerman has been going a good job, Sakic, Kevyn Adams is starting to gain traction in his tenure, the list goes on and on. How is Treliving better than his predecessors? Do you measure by win %? Profit? How is an argument stupid when you don't know how good or bad the next guy will be? Nobody forecasts if a guy is going to be amazing, the hope always is they will be. Same with any industry. I mean you give a contract that you offered Gaudreau to Huberdeau thinking he's going to be as good or better? He's not and now everyone wants him traded.

What I see from a fan is this, team isn't playing well. Team is against the cap next season. Treliving has had 4 coaches that he hired. He didn't secure any future planning with Gaudreau, he's a very wait and see type GM. I don't want to wait anymore. Isn't that a good enough argument?

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Drunk Uncle

Drafting has been better under Tre than I can recall in the previous 20 years before Tre.

Curious why you think Tre would be bad for a rebuild?

My assumption is that poster was one of those who quickly revived the thread calling Tre's head after every loss, goal against or even bad play that happened last year.

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Why do you think Treliving doesn’t value speed and skill? That’s as a ridiculous assumption I’ve seen here, ever.

That’s like saying a chef doesn’t value salt and pepper.

Sure I'm not assuming I know what his thoughts are. But I look at his drafting and signings and the team he built. Does it look like a team that is built with speed and skill?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

So is Treliving better than Feaster? Most people on here believe Feaster was terrible, but guess who has a stanley cup?

Give me a break. Did Feaster win his cup here? Did the Flames make the playoffs under him? Did he win any trades when he was here?

[D as in David]

Keep all the goalies. It looks like the Wranglers could go deep in the playoffs which would be great for Wolf. Bringing up Wolf to play for a team that doesn't really look like it could do the same, would be a waste.

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Give me a break. Did Feaster win his cup here? Did the Flames make the playoffs under him? Did he win any trades when he was here?

Did I say Feaster win a cup here? My point is how do you judge who's great as a GM? Every GM has their good days and bad days. I'm saying this team isn't much better with Treliving than before we had him in terms of success. And as a fan I'm ready to move on and allow someone else different. It's pretty simple, that's just my view. Just like how you have your view on my posts.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

These types of comments are such a cop out to real discussion

I don't know who the Flames should hire as the next GM, but I can still have the opinion BT's tenure hasn't produced the desired results, and the Flames are arguably in one of the worst overall states in the NHL right now.

Old, at the Cap, no impact prospects on the horizon, no extra picks, and fighting for last playoff spot.

It's easy to see why someone would think it's time to move on. Fear of hiring someone worse should never be the reason for retaining a current employee.

When people say they want someone else and then ask people to provide why they would want to keep Treliving that is fine but when you ask them for a solution it is a cop out?

I guess you can try and argue they are in the worst states but it can be argued they are not. We have seen it with this team. What has happened before they have players underperforming. Are they cooked for good or will they bounce back?

Letting someone go without a solid succession plan is not the ideal path to take unless that person is a legit detriment to the organization. Treliving might not be to some peoples liking but he is competent and unless there is a clear succession plan in place I don’t think it makes sense to move on. Do you want Conroy or Pascal to take over? It is okay to complain but conversation is better if people bring solution ideas to the problems. In the post you quoted of mine the poster asked someone why Treliving should say so I asked who they want to take over. If they can ask someone to put some work in then so can i

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

Did I say Feaster win a cup here? My point is how do you judge who's great as a GM? Every GM has their good days and bad days. I'm saying this team isn't much better with Treliving than before we had him in terms of success. And as a fan I'm ready to move on and allow someone else different. It's pretty simple, that's just my view. Just like how you have your view on my posts.

The Flames were a joke under Feaster. Under Treliving they have been called a contender and have made the playoffs in several seasons and won in the first round a couple of times and won the division a couple of times. If fans only judge GM success by cups then it is tough to have a conversation about it. The Flames have made and won some big trades under Treliving, and had some strong seasons. I agree there is plenty reason to be frustrated and wanting to move on but I am of the belief he is a solid manager who is trying to work the mandate that his bosses have to him. With that said if they want to move on from him this summer or he wants to move on I can see it.

[Flames1217]

Tree built an elite team and watched it crumble under circumstances that were not his own.

For me, Tree stays.

How many better GMs are actually on the market ?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

So is Treliving better than Feaster? Most people on here believe Feaster was terrible, but guess who has a stanley cup? What do you value as a GM? Yzerman has been going a good job, Sakic, Kevyn Adams is starting to gain traction in his tenure, the list goes on and on. How is Treliving better than his predecessors? Do you measure by win %? Profit? How is an argument stupid when you don't know how good or bad the next guy will be? Nobody forecasts if a guy is going to be amazing, the hope always is they will be. Same with any industry. I mean you give a contract that you offered Gaudreau to Huberdeau thinking he's going to be as good or better? He's not and now everyone wants him traded.

What I see from a fan is this, team isn't playing well. Team is against the cap next season. Treliving has had 4 coaches that he hired. He didn't secure any future planning with Gaudreau, he's a very wait and see type GM. I don't want to wait anymore. Isn't that a good enough argument?

For a guy who has his name on the cup you sure have to wonder why he can’t get another gig, no? It’s been, what, 8 years now? Feaster was handed that team on a platter. He does deserve some credit for making some nice moves to get them over the hump but let’s not try to make him into something he’s not. Treliving is the better GM and I don’t think it’s even an argument. I’ve heard Steinberg and others say they don’t think Treliving would be on the sidelines long if he or the Flames decided to move on. So, take that for what it’s worth.

Regarding Gaudreau, I have a hard time believing Treliving was handling that situation on his own. I find it much more likely that Treliving was updating and taking overall direction from ownership. That’s not to say he should be absolved but I would bet he was providing ownership with his recommendations. After Gaudreau left and Tkachuk wanted out I also believe Treliving spoke to ownership about the overall direction the club should take and it was probably decided upon, as a group, what the course of action was going to be. What will be interesting is if Treliving leaves the Flames this offseason, that could suggest he didn’t necessarily agree with the direction and probably wasn’t given the opportunity to shape the team as he saw it.

Lastly, everyone wants Huberdeau traded? That’s, yet again, woefully shortsighted and full of hyperbole. It’s no wonder why some are so quick to fly off the handle, they have the attention span of a goldfish.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

Sure I'm not assuming I know what his thoughts are. But I look at his drafting and signings and the team he built. Does it look like a team that is built with speed and skill?

Treliving has said, repeatedly, that he views hockey IQ and competitiveness as characteristics he looks for. He has said things like ‘you have to think the game’.

That’s how we end up with Mang, Wolf, and Pelletier to use a few examples. Putting the blind folders on and drafting for speed is how you end up with Rico Fata. A hockey player needs to exhibit multiple attributes. If speed isn’t one of them, the others make up for it. Like Matthew Tkachuk.

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by TOfan

For a guy who has his name on the cup you sure have to wonder why he can’t get another gig, no? It’s been, what, 8 years now? Feaster was handed that team on a platter. He does deserve some credit for making some nice moves to get them over the hump but let’s not try to make him into something he’s not. Treliving is the better GM and I don’t think it’s even an argument. I’ve heard Steinberg and others say they don’t think Treliving would be on the sidelines long if he or the Flames decided to move on. So, take that for what it’s worth.

Regarding Gaudreau, I have a hard time believing Treliving was handling that situation on his own. I find it much more likely that Treliving was updating and taking overall direction from ownership. That’s not to say he should be absolved but I would bet he was providing ownership with his recommendations. After Gaudreau left and Tkachuk wanted out I also believe Treliving spoke to ownership about the overall direction the club should take and it was probably decided upon, as a group, what the course of action was going to be. What will be interesting is if Treliving leaves the Flames this offseason, that could suggest he didn’t necessarily agree with the direction and probably wasn’t given the opportunity to shape the team as he saw it.

Lastly, everyone wants Huberdeau traded? That’s, yet again, woefully shortsighted and full of hyperbole. It’s no wonder why some are so quick to fly off the handle, they have the attention span of a goldfish.

I never suggested I wanted to trade Hubie, just from a lot of the posts I've seen so maybe using "everyone" wasn't accurate.

Why do you have to be so aggressive with calling peoples views small world, goldfish attention spans, etc? It's a forum so people aren't always going to share the same views as you, that should be allowed, no?

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Treliving has said, repeatedly, that he views hockey IQ and competitiveness as characteristics he looks for. He has said things like ‘you have to think the game’.

That’s how we end up with Mang, Wolf, and Pelletier to use a few examples. Putting the blind folders on and drafting for speed is how you end up with Rico Fata. A hockey player needs to exhibit multiple attributes. If speed isn’t one of them, the others make up for it. Like Matthew Tkachuk.

This we can both agree on. But Tkachuk does have elite hockey IQ and being able to play with fast players allows him to utilize it.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I do just go back to look at where Treliving got to draft from.

Treliving was brought in by anti-rebuild Burke. He was likely hired to get them back into a competitive spot (and his spending reflected it).

I think the team is much better at drafting and developing with Tree at the helm Vs. everybody before him...so I'd just be more worried about who is replacing him. I think Tree, if given the opportunity and mandate to rebuild would do a good job because:

1. He's a good trader. He'd maximize the return on the selling.
2. Drafting is better under him. I'd trust him with oodles of picks.

But yeah - if we moved on from him to a good candidate (read: Not Sutter), then I'm not opposed to it...I just wouldn't want to see a new GM come in and try and make the team competitive again all over again.

I'm not opposed to a new GM, I'm just fearful of who it may be...but so long as the mandate is rebuild, that's the most important thing for me.

Originally Posted by TOfan

This is an ownership problem, not a Treliving problem. The way this team goes about its business has been mostly the same since the 2005 lockout. The only time the rebuilt, which according to some they didn’t at all, was when their hand was forced and they went into it kicking and screaming. They also got out of it as soon as they possibly could.

This organizational direction was established long before Treliving came along. If you going to cast blame, at least know where it belongs.

Quoted all for emphasis .