[Trade] Toronto trades Kasperi Kapanen to Pittsburgh

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Right, but they were only in a position to be lucky because they were bad.

The 2015 playoffs were great and all but maybe the Flames should've committed to being terrible that year to try to get into the McDavid lottery?

The key is that the Penguins were bad for years, just like the hawks and kings, they didn't signal rebuild over after picking Ryan Whitney 5th overall.

Between 2001 and 2006 Pittsburgh gave up the following picks: 6th round, 4th round, 5th round, a 7th and a couple of 9th round picks. They gave up a 2nd round pick and a player in addition to 3rd overall to move up to draft MAF 1st overall.

They took back multiple picks over that span, a lot more and better picks than what they gave up, including the 2nd round pick they used to get goligoski and a 3rd round pick from the Flames for Ference.

In 2006 with Crosby scoring 102 points they traded AWAY mark recchi at the deadline.

I don't think the Penguins traded away a 1st round pick for more than a decade in a row until deadline day 2007 when they finished the season with 105 points.

Do they win any of their cups with Crosby?
As someone else posted they had a 6% chance of getting him.
That's a lot of luck that resulted in a franchise altering player coming to their team.
The most important thing they did came down to a fortunate bounce of lottery balls.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Do they win any of their cups with Crosby?
As someone else posted they had a 6% chance of getting him.
That's a lot of luck that resulted in a franchise altering player coming to their team.
The most important thing they did came down to a fortunate bounce of lottery balls.

Lol, Jiri, if they lose that lottery and draft Anze Kopitar 11th overall and have Malkin Kopitar Staal as their top 3 centres with MAF in net and Letang on defense they are still probably winning at least one cup.

If they lose that lottery and Draft Carey Price 5th overall and move price of Fleury for an equivalent player at forward they still probably win a championship.

Look north at the oilers to see what the lottery gets you without a consistent draft philosophy

[agulati]

It is not just about drafting though. It is also about development of the players who have been drafted, especially once you get beyond the top 3 for most draft years(And top 3 for certain draft years as well)

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by agulati

It is not just about drafting though. It is also about development of the players who have been drafted, especially once you get beyond the top 3 for most draft years(And top 3 for certain draft years as well)

Yep, and development is also luck based as well.

Which is why having 2x2nds is better than having 1 and having 5 picks in the first 3 rounds is better than having no picks in the first 3 rounds.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I understand why the Penguins are trying to reload while they have two HOF players with gas left in the tank. That said I don't think Kapanen is great value for what they gave up. Yes he's signed to a decent salary but like most Leafs he's a little overrated. I think he will likely put up career numbers alongside Crosby but so would any decently skilled forward. I admire that they aren't scared to make moves like this but I don't think he's going to be a difference maker for them. This is a massive win for the Leafs getting a 1s round pick for a bottom six forward.

Based on recent selections to the Hall of Good players, they may about 5 HOFers.

[Geeoff]

When Malkin and Crosby are done, the Penguins are gonna be historically bad

[David Struch]

The Flames clearly do not see Brodie as part of the future as he was part of the Kadri offer, same goes for Hanifin, he was part of the Hall deal, and Kylington was in the failed Edler trade. I doubt Calgary has done a full 360 in their views of these guys. It seems to me they are not in Calgary's future plans on D.

I would even consider Giordano for that 15th overall pick.

There are a ton of other defensemen the Flames are likely interested in, most notably Forbort & Gustafsson.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

When Malkin and Crosby are done, the Penguins are gonna be historically bad

They have enjoyed multi-cup eras with Lemieux/Jagr and now with Crosby/Malkin. As such, who gives a F !

I'm certain they'll suck for a few years and win a few lotteries. If they don't, I'm sure the NHL will step in and win them a few should their fans start paying for tickets.

[GranteedEV]

nvm

[Ped]

Off the top it seems like an overpay by Pittsburgh, but getting someone like Kapanen in the middle of the first round would be considered a good thing. He might not be what Leaf fans were hyping him to be, but he is legitimate middle six winger.


Lindgren was highly touted when the Leafs signed him too, but that's the Leafs, and if he couldn't get a sniff with their d-core, he's probably not a great prospect.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by David Struch

The Flames clearly do not see Brodie as part of the future as he was part of the Kadri offer, same goes for Hanifin, he was part of the Hall deal, and Kylington was in the failed Edler trade. I doubt Calgary has done a full 360 in their views of these guys. It seems to me they are not in Calgary's future plans on D.

I would even consider Giordano for that 15th overall pick.

There are a ton of other defensemen the Flames are likely interested in, most notably Forbort & Gustafsson.

I wouldn't consider this.
I would accept without hesitation.

[868904]

I’m glad Dubas is the Leafs GM.

They lacked grit before and after trading Kadri so what do they do? Trade their grittiest top 6 forward left.

Every championship team bulks up for the playoffs but wonderboy is going to buck the trend of a hundred years.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

When Malkin and Crosby are done, the Penguins are gonna be historically bad

Yeah, until they fall ass backwards into the next two best players in the sport.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by David Struch

The Flames clearly do not see Brodie as part of the future as he was part of the Kadri offer, same goes for Hanifin, he was part of the Hall deal, and Kylington was in the failed Edler trade. I doubt Calgary has done a full 360 in their views of these guys. It seems to me they are not in Calgary's future plans on D.

I would even consider Giordano for that 15th overall pick.

There are a ton of other defensemen the Flames are likely interested in, most notably Forbort & Gustafsson.

You have to give up something to get something. No way are they giving up all three, each failed deal involved only one of them. Forbort and Gustafsson were the 3rd pair and were exposed by the Stars’ forecheck.

But yes, I would trade Gio for any top 20 pick

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Lol, Jiri, if they lose that lottery and draft Anze Kopitar 11th overall and have Malkin Kopitar Staal as their top 3 centres with MAF in net and Letang on defense they are still probably winning at least one cup.

If they lose that lottery and Draft Carey Price 5th overall and move price of Fleury for an equivalent player at forward they still probably win a championship.

Look north at the oilers to see what the lottery gets you without a consistent draft philosophy

OK now we are playing "What Ifs".
The most important player in their Cups has been Crosby. Agreed?
And they got him by a whole lotta luck. 6% chance of getting him.
That's my point.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Yeah, until they fall ass backwards into the next two best players in the sport.

It would be fun if they Edmonton it up for a bit

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by David Struch

The Flames clearly do not see Brodie as part of the future as he was part of the Kadri offer, same goes for Hanifin, he was part of the Hall deal, and Kylington was in the failed Edler trade. I doubt Calgary has done a full 360 in their views of these guys. It seems to me they are not in Calgary's future plans on D.

I would even consider Giordano for that 15th overall pick.

There are a ton of other defensemen the Flames are likely interested in, most notably Forbort & Gustafsson.

Making assumptions based on who was/wasn't included in trades is a fools game. As another poster said, you have to give to get. I doubt anyone that isn't absolutely elite on any team is untouchable. And these things change all the time. Maybe Brodie was expendable because of Hamonic being there and Gio being a Norris winner. Maybe they want him around long term now given how those two things have changed.

Just as acquiring Forbort and Gus means pretty much nothing to whether those guys are in their future plans. They were at the time, that's why they were acquired. Means nothing now.

[David Struch]

I guess we'll find out soon enough, if Brodie, Hanifin, and Kylington are part of Calgary's D core moving forward or not.

[TheScorpion]

The Red Wings almost traded Yzerman for Alexei Yashin in 1995. I wonder if he was in their future plans.

[Strange Brew]

Being discussed as part of potential trades doesn't mean you're not part of the core. It seems Calgary leaks more of this stuff than other teams, or maybe we just hear of it more, but I'd imagine such conversations are commonplace.