[Trade] Toronto trades Kasperi Kapanen to Pittsburgh

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think it's likelier than not that Hanifin will be moved this offseason if the Flames can get a defender back in a gaudreau or monahan trade.

Just get the sense the organization is not satisfied with his development, even with the relative lack of depth at the position.

What's making people think this? What evidence or clues indicating these type of signals?

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

Hanifin is not being traded, maybe you should take look at the Flames depth chart.

No one is untouchable, certainly not Hanifin.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I don't know why Pittsburgh keeps trading so many futures for mid-range players. IMO this is a huge overpayment for a player in Kapanen who really isn't very good.

First, Kapanen is quite good actually, for a $3.2M cap hit.

Second, and more importnatly, they have Crosby and Malkin. They are - correctly - mortgaging their future in order to give these guys every chance possible to win.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

Hanifin is not being traded, maybe you should take look at the Flames depth chart.

Not that this is the thread for this discussion, but the Flames depth chart could change very quickly.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

After which they will be re-building completely from nothing and it will be probably a long one.

Indeed, they probably just plan to draft the next generational talent and do it all again.

If it ain't broke...

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

They are trying to squeeze out one more cup from the Crosby era.
Which i agree with. When you have a player like that - you go for it until he's done.
After which they will be re-building completely from nothing and it will be probably a long one.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

First, Kapanen is quite good actually, for a $3.2M cap hit.

Second, and more importnatly, they have Crosby and Malkin. They are - correctly - mortgaging their future in order to give these guys every chance possible to win.

I completely agree with getting guys to complement the Crosby/Malkin core, but giving up another first for a guy like Kapanen? I just don't understand that at all.

Kapanen's results are closer to Kyle Clifford than William Nylander.

2019-20:

CF% - 51.63% (18th on TOR)
GF% - 45.95% (22nd on TOR)
xGF% - 47.99% (24th on TOR)
Scoring chance % - 50.51% (22nd on TOR)
HDCF% - 48.59% (23rd on TOR)

Compared to his teammates, he got thrashed at 5v5. These results aren't new, either -- he's never been a play-driver at even strength. He's their worst regular penalty-killer. And $3.2 million isn't expensive, but it's not exactly cheap either for a guy who's a Toronto-glorified third-liner.

JR got fleeced in this one.

[Johnny Makarov]

Great! Lindholm is worth at least a mid 1st!

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I completely agree with getting guys to complement the Crosby/Malkin core, but giving up another first for a guy like Kapanen? I just don't understand that at all.

Kapanen's results are closer to Kyle Clifford than William Nylander.

2019-20:

CF% - 51.63% (18th on TOR)
GF% - 45.95% (22nd on TOR)
xGF% - 47.99% (24th on TOR)
Scoring chance % - 50.51% (22nd on TOR)
HDCF% - 48.59% (23rd on TOR)

Compared to his teammates, he got thrashed at 5v5. These results aren't new, either -- he's never been a play-driver at even strength. He's their worst regular penalty-killer. And $3.2 million isn't expensive, but it's not exactly cheap either for a guy who's a Toronto-glorified third-liner.

JR got fleeced in this one.

I agree and in a cap world where the cap remains flat for probably 3 years adding cheap depth will be very important. Draft picks and cap space are something both Toronto and Pittsburgh need. To me they weren't good trade partners. Leafs did very well getting great value in their situation. Some are suggesting 7th overall for Johnny and liking it. Kapanen for 15th and nothing like jj going back was huge for leafs

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I completely agree with getting guys to complement the Crosby/Malkin core, but giving up another first for a guy like Kapanen? I just don't understand that at all.

Kapanen's results are closer to Kyle Clifford than William Nylander.

2019-20:

CF% - 51.63% (18th on TOR)
GF% - 45.95% (22nd on TOR)
xGF% - 47.99% (24th on TOR)
Scoring chance % - 50.51% (22nd on TOR)
HDCF% - 48.59% (23rd on TOR)

Compared to his teammates, he got thrashed at 5v5. These results aren't new, either -- he's never been a play-driver at even strength. He's their worst regular penalty-killer. And $3.2 million isn't expensive, but it's not exactly cheap either for a guy who's a Toronto-glorified third-liner.

JR got fleeced in this one.

How many players does Toronto have?

Based on your Domi + 1st trade for Gaudreau, and your disdain for this trade, I think maybe you have an inflated opinion of the value of a mid 1st (roughly 50% chance of getting an NHLer)

[Saqe]

Totally decent trade for both sides. Mid first rounders are complete hit and miss, at least Pittsburgh got a player that helps right away.

[Enoch Root]

Or maybe you just don't like Kapanen, which is fair.

Personally, I think he will have a breakout season with Pitt

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

How many players does Toronto have?

Based on your Domi + 1st trade for Gaudreau, and your disdain for this trade, I think maybe you have an inflated opinion of the value of a mid 1st (roughly 50% chance of getting an NHLer)

That ain't my trade. I was commenting on someone else's.

Pretty sure on NST Toronto has 30 players listed.

And I mean, mid-firsts are very valuable. I lived through an era of Flames teams that was constantly downgrading or trading their firsts for baffling reasons. I would rather have a first than a guy in Kapanen who is extremely average across-the-board.

Also, Max Domi is a much better player than Kapanen.

[Enoch Root]

I know it wasn't your trade, but you were defending it hard.

Yes, Domi is better than kapanen.

Question: would you trade Gaudreau for Domi and Kapanen?

[TheScorpion]

No, certainly not. That does very little for the Flames.

I wouldn't necessarily trade him for Domi and a 1st, either. The Canadiens would need to add a third piece that caters to the Flames' needs. Preferably a solid defensive prospect to shore up their thin organizational depth.

[transplant99]

This is a really really good trade for both teams.

The leafs gain a bit of badly needed cap room and get the pick back in the 1st.

The Pens get a perfect compliment to Crosby or Malkin.
They know the player well since they drafted him originally. Terrific cap hit too. He will explode under that system playing with those guys.

Truly the one player in the entire league I would have and have on the past predicted would be a flame by next season and a bit perturbed he isn't. Perfect fit for Calgary but maybe even a better fit for Pittsburgh.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Great! Lindholm is worth at least a mid 1st!

Lindholm was probably the Flames' best overall forward in the regular season. I don't think they will trade him

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Not that this is the thread for this discussion, but the Flames depth chart could change very quickly.

I think people look at the real thing like it’s a “fantasy league”. If you trade Hanifin then you need a new 3, maybe 4. How do you get that for less then 4.95? The Flames have no depth at defense, no potential 2nd pairing guys.

You really can’t move Valomaki, Anderson, or Hanifin. Unless the name Barkov or something like that is involved. I simply don’t think that’s going to happen. Treliving said as much, you don’t make trades just to change thinks up, unless the player demands a trade. Then you still need to be patient.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

I think people look at the real thing like it’s a “fantasy league”. If you trade Hanifin then you need a new 3, maybe 4. How do you get that for less then 4.95? The Flames have no depth at defense, no potential 2nd pairing guys.

If the Flames trade a forward, Gaudreau or Monahan for example, and one of the pieces in the return is a top 4 left handed defenseman, then suddenly Hanifin becomes a potential trade chip. It's not a "fantasy league" thing, it could easily happen for real.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Joborule

What's making people think this? What evidence or clues indicating these type of signals?

The Flames already tried to trade him this year for Hall?

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I don't know why Pittsburgh keeps trading so many futures for mid-range players. IMO this is a huge overpayment for a player in Kapanen who really isn't very good.

If we had Crosy and Malkin instead of Monahan and Gaudreau, who won us 3 cups in the last 10ish years, and they are getting to their mid 30's, I'm pretty sure most Flames fans would still be ok with the organization mortgaging futures for another few shots at the cup before their window closes.

That's the luxury a team like the Pens have. They can be garbage for 10 years after Crosby and Malkin retire, and they'd be ok with it because they've won championships.