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Old 02-15-2020, 11:23 AM   #21
powderjunkie
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If Hamonic takes a low salary deal you can almost be sure he will be wanting a NMC, which we can’t do with the expansion draft looming.
He's not getting an NMC anywhere. NTC, sure (or more likely a ~15 team NTC)...doesn't impact expansion.

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You can bury 1.7 IIRC. Maybe it's 1.3.

Sure, it's all budgetary, but just saying Hamonic = Stone is not accurate at all.

ETA: 1.07 not 1.7 so you are closer.
Remember that unless you run a 22 man roster, you're only burying ~$300k when you factor in the replacement player.
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Old 02-15-2020, 12:05 PM   #22
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Its almost criminal how under appreciated Hamonic is by some people.

Leading PK guy on the team by ice time, solid net front defender, handles all the minutes needed by the coaching staff...is all of 4 points behind the messiah that TJ Brodie has become without any PP time

And some think he is worth less than Ron Hainsey.

I just don't get it.
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Old 02-15-2020, 12:13 PM   #23
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I really like Brodie the person and the player. Still a I don't know that a 33 year old Brodie is what this team needs moving forward.
You are right. A 30-year-old Brodie is more in line with what this team needs moving forward, which is what this contract would buy. Fortunately, and 33-year-old Brodie would be the end product after which the team made use of the 30-, 31-, and 32-year-old Brodie. I suspect that those previous Brodies would be eminently useful to the Flames moving forward. By the time they actually get to the 33-year-old Brodie, they will probably want to move forward with someone else.
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Old 02-15-2020, 12:38 PM   #24
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Its almost criminal how under appreciated Hamonic is by some people.

Leading PK guy on the team by ice time, solid net front defender, handles all the minutes needed by the coaching staff...is all of 4 points behind the messiah that TJ Brodie has become without any PP time

And some think he is worth less than Ron Hainsey.

I just don't get it.
I think a lot of it has to do with him failing the eye test for many. He makes a lot of mistakes for a veteran defenseman and even though he's got a reputation as a shut down guy in reality he's far from it. The reason he gets a lot of time on the PK is because he's one of those guys willing to put his body in front of shots and that's very admirable and probably his best quality but 5 on 5 he's very, very average. I don't think he's terrible but I also think he's a 2nd pairing defenseman with one foot into 3rd pairing defenseman. Not a guy you hand out money and term to IMO.
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Old 02-15-2020, 01:38 PM   #25
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Hamonic now is what Kris Russell/Michael Stone were before they signed their multi-year deals. Once they've lost that extra step guys like Hamonic traditionally fall off a cliff and become cap problems very quickly.

The Flames have a longstanding bad habit of falling in love with guys like this. That's why they always find themselves running into cap issues when their 4th line/3rd pairing have too much money invested.

Last edited by mrdonkey; 02-15-2020 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 02-15-2020, 03:39 PM   #26
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I think a lot of it has to do with him failing the eye test for many. He makes a lot of mistakes for a veteran defenseman and even though he's got a reputation as a shut down guy in reality he's far from it. The reason he gets a lot of time on the PK is because he's one of those guys willing to put his body in front of shots and that's very admirable and probably his best quality but 5 on 5 he's very, very average. I don't think he's terrible but I also think he's a 2nd pairing defenseman with one foot into 3rd pairing defenseman. Not a guy you hand out money and term to IMO.
I agree with the last part, he’s a 4 on the verge of being a 5. And I wouldn’t give him a raise, actually. But I disagree on the amount of mistakes he makes. And he’s a lot better at winning puck battles and clearing than most of the defencemen on the team. He gets left as the sole defender by his partner and the forwards a lot, and then people blame him for the resulting goal.

And for those comparing him to Stone, even this year he’s better than Stone has ever been. Russell was a one trick pony - the two aren’t comparable at all.
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Old 02-15-2020, 03:54 PM   #27
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I agree with the last part, he’s a 4 on the verge of being a 5. And I wouldn’t give him a raise, actually. But I disagree on the amount of mistakes he makes. And he’s a lot better at winning puck battles and clearing than most of the defencemen on the team. He gets left as the sole defender by his partner and the forwards a lot, and then people blame him for the resulting goal.

And for those comparing him to Stone, even this year he’s better than Stone has ever been. Russell was a one trick pony - the two aren’t comparable at all.
Obviously their skillsets are a bit different but in their heydays they served the same role on the team: a guy you can throw out for the PK and other defensive plays, who you don't really count on to contribute all that much in the offensive end.

Once they lose the ability to keep up, as most players do in their 30s, you're left with a player who doesn't really contribute anything and is making way too much for what they bring. This is not a comparison of quality as much as it is a criticism of the trap the Flames fall into time and again with this style of player. Stone and Russell are cautionary tales for why you shouldn't fall in love with defensive defensemen too much when they're approaching their post-apex phase.

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