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Old 01-13-2020, 01:17 PM   #21
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That's an interesting requirement. I can't say I've ever seen anyone cheering for any theme besides maybe Star Wars.
It's not a requirement, but it's an emotional response rarely seen in this context, as you note. I think that's what the whole point of awards is, no? Recognizing achievement? The Oscars are what are formulaic and boring. Not willing to recognize new types of artistry until they are absolutely forced to. Didn't have an Animated category until 1991. And they only need one because they won't nominate animated movies for Best Picture, like a cartoon can't be better than watching the same old Italian dudes grumble at each other. It's the same reason diversity is still an issue. It's the same tired old people voting for the same tired old movies.

I'm not saying Endgame should be sweeping awards, but some recognition for it (Marvel's) contribution to their industry over the past decade i think is warranted. I do think the score specifically should have been getting more love the whole time, and that an acting nod for RDJ wouldn't have been out of place.
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:18 PM   #22
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Have they even named a host yet this year?
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:19 PM   #23
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Have they even named a host yet this year?
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:23 PM   #24
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I didn't see Beautiful Day - but how does a movie about Mr. Rogers not put Hanks in leading role category? Is there another main character in a movie about Mr. Rogers?


Edit: asked and answered above
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:25 PM   #25
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It's not a requirement, but it's an emotional response rarely seen in this context, as you note. I think that's what the whole point of awards is, no? Recognizing achievement? The Oscars are what are formulaic and boring. Not willing to recognize new types of artistry until they are absolutely forced to. Didn't have an Animated category until 1991. And they only need one because they won't nominate animated movies for Best Picture, like a cartoon can't be better than watching the same old Italian dudes grumble at each other. It's the same reason diversity is still an issue. It's the same tired old people voting for the same tired old movies.

I'm not saying Endgame should be sweeping awards, but some recognition for it (Marvel's) contribution to their industry over the past decade i think is warranted. I do think the score specifically should have been getting more love the whole time, and that an acting nod for RDJ wouldn't have been out of place.
Firstly, this isn't the Emmy's. The Emmy's are the ones that give undeserving awards because of the run of a show.

Secondly, Endgame wasn't even as good as Infinity War. So if Infinity War didn't receive a bunch of awards, why would its weaker sequel?

The Oscars being slow to adapt doesn't mean that the score of Endgame is deserving of an Oscar. It's an irrelevant aside. Marvel movie scores are pretty generally accepted as being banal. I've never seen anyone have an emotional response to a Marvel score. I love what they've done, I enjoy most of the movies, but the music is totally forgettable.
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:26 PM   #26
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I've never heard of Jojo Rabbit.
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:30 PM   #27
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Hmm weird. I don't remember a theatre full of people cheering when the theme hit for Little Women.
People cheer in the theatre for a theme? holy disney fanboys!
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:33 PM   #28
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ScarJo should not get the best actress win in my opinion. She was good, but nowhere near as masterful as Driver was in Marriage Story. He made that film as good as it was. I think it's a case of overshadowing resulting from casting.
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:34 PM   #29
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Firstly, this isn't the Emmy's. The Emmy's are the ones that give undeserving awards because of the run of a show.
Return of the King says hi. But this is also kind of my point. There are story arc payoffs in Endgame that reach back to films from a decade ago, and yeah not all of those films are award worthy, does that mean this isn't? How do we go about recognizing that from a storytelling standpoint in this medium?

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Secondly, Endgame wasn't even as good as Infinity War. So if Infinity War didn't receive a bunch of awards, why would its weaker sequel?
I agree and also thought Infinity War should have been nominated for a couple awards, and was a better movie than Black Panther, which while good, was only nominated so the academy could look "woke".

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The Oscars being slow to adapt doesn't mean that the score of Endgame is deserving of an Oscar. It's an irrelevant aside. Marvel movie scores are pretty generally accepted as being banal.
That means there can't be standouts? Star Wars is nominated. It's been the same score for 40 years. Because it's awesome. So was the LOTR score. So is Harry Potter. So is the Avengers score.

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People cheer in the theatre for a theme? holy disney fanboys!
It's not like a few people man. You go to these movies within the first few days of release and it's literally like being a sporting event. People cheer when Thor shows up to save the day in Wakanda, people cheer when Cap picks up Thor's hammer. People yell "Oh f**"! when Thor decapitates Thanos. People lose their minds when Cap says "Avengers, assemble." Like the whole theatre. Not a few nerds in the back. It's a different type of movie experience that's my whole point.
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:36 PM   #30
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I don't disagree with your first two points.

Your third point is wrong, The Avengers score is forgettable. Basically film muzak.
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:38 PM   #31
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One more opinion - American Factory should win the Best Documentary film category. That film shows the definitive "clash of cultures" scenario that speaks volumes about globalism, trust, lack of communication, and real people at the heart of corporate machines. It was awkward and uncomfortable to watch at times, and really highlights the ongoing, chronic challenges that persist among different people trying to get along.
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:40 PM   #32
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Frozen 2 snubbed for Best Animated is crazy. I haven't seen all of those movies (but will try to make a point too), but the two I have seen (Toy Story 4 and Dragon) I thought were much weaker than Frozen 2.
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:49 PM   #33
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It's not like a few people man. You go to these movies within the first few days of release and it's literally like being a sporting event. People cheer when Thor shows up to save the day in Wakanda, people cheer when Cap picks up Thor's hammer. People yell "Oh f**"! when Thor decapitates Thanos. People lose their minds when Cap says "Avengers, assemble." Like the whole theatre. Not a few nerds in the back. It's a different type of movie experience that's my whole point.
That is pretty weird. "Avengers Assemble" and the entire theatre geeks out? Jesus.
Haven't watched a Marvel Movie since Dr. Strange.
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:52 PM   #34
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One actress who I felt was snubbed was Julianne Moore in Gloria Bell, she was fantastic in that.
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:55 PM   #35
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That is pretty weird. "Avengers Assemble" and the entire theatre geeks out? Jesus.
Haven't watched a Marvel Movie since Dr. Strange.
Weirder than cheering for a 20 year old that can hit a hard rubber disc well?
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Old 01-13-2020, 02:05 PM   #36
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I've never heard of Jojo Rabbit.
Hoo boy, are you in for a treat.
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I'm not saying Endgame should be sweeping awards, but some recognition for it (Marvel's) contribution to their industry over the past decade i think is warranted.
Like what? Visual effects? Already got that nom. It definitely doesn't get within a mile of cinematography. Costume design maybe? I'm not sure what you actually want here, other than score, which you're just wrong about.
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Your third point is wrong, The Avengers score is forgettable. Basically film muzak.
It sure as hell shouldn't be compared with Lord of the Rings. As flawed as those movies are, what Shore did with the music was utterly incredible. If you don't understand the difference between that and the Avengers or Star Wars or Harry Potter, you don't really know what you're talking about.
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Old 01-13-2020, 02:12 PM   #37
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Lord of the Rings trilogy is an all-time great movie score, not just a best of that year.
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Old 01-13-2020, 02:23 PM   #38
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Hoo boy, are you in for a treat.

Like what? Visual effects? Already got that nom. It definitely doesn't get within a mile of cinematography. Costume design maybe? I'm not sure what you actually want here, other than score, which you're just wrong about.

It sure as hell shouldn't be compared with Lord of the Rings. As flawed as those movies are, what Shore did with the music was utterly incredible. If you don't understand the difference between that and the Avengers or Star Wars or Harry Potter, you don't really know what you're talking about.
Okay I'll admit it's a stretch to compare those scores. My point is you hear the Avengers theme, it's recognizable. It's opposite of forgettable, and it might not have the variety of memorable compositions like those other ones, maybe more comparable to Pirates of the Carribean, I think it deserves nomination.

I think RDJ could have been considered for acting. And yeah I think Endgame, for being a great ending to a series in which they tied up a decade's worth of interweaving plots and characters, having emotional and satisfying resolutions for it's main characters in Cap and Stark, as well as its seamless combination of all of its artistic elements (the technical scope involved vs the relatively simple character stories) it deserves a nomination for Best Picture. I thought Infinity War did too. Really don't think any of that is unreasonable.
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Old 01-13-2020, 02:32 PM   #39
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Yeah, no, RDJ isn't in the same stratosphere. Good performance I think, but nothing to that level.

Pirates is a pretty good comparable in the sense that I know the main theme off the top of my head and it's pretty widely recognizable but that's about it. There are some leitmotifs in the Marvel movies generally - which obviously there should be given the interweaving plots, groups, characters and recurring locations like Wakanda - but they're mostly just not very memorable. I couldn't hum, say, Thor's theme for you. The only reason I can recognize Black Panther music is because of cheesy afro-kitsch. They also don't lead into each other well. They're not adequately versatile. Frankly the most impactful piece of music in the whole thing is probably Rubber Man.

Then you watch Fellowship and listen to the Ring theme transition into the Shire theme transition into the Fellowship theme in various different keys depending on the mood that Shore wants to convey and your mind explodes. Seriously, just watch that movie and focus entirely on the musical themes. It's really cool.
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Old 01-13-2020, 02:35 PM   #40
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This is memorable.

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