2011-12 Prospect Stats and Update Thread

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by devo22

still plenty of time. I think the deadline is in June.

The Flames have to sign Leach by June 1.
And yes, his contract would not count against their limit due to it being an ELC that isn't activated until the following season.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Johnny Rotten

Wow! That'll be an interesting read. Another reason to stop subscribing to that magazine.

What publication, web site, or other hockey analysis forum disagrees with that? Comparatively across the NHL the Flames still have a pretty shallow prospect pool. Losing Erixon was a big loss and could account for the drop. Yes we got Baertschi, but other teams improved as well.

We have Baertschi. Other teams have RNH, Huberdeau, Schenn .... We have Brodie other teams have Erixon, Larsson, Hamilton .... We have Irving. Other teams have Bernier, Schneider, Markstrom .... We have Backlund, other teams have Hall, Seguin, Duchene ....

And those are our impact players ready to make a splash now.

Our AHL players like Nemisz, Howse, Byron, etc aren't raising too many eyebrows. The NHL ready graduates and prospects like Horak, Backlund, Bouma aren't making an immediate splash and may never.

Its fun watching our junior projects like Ferland, Reinhart, Gaudreau, Granlund, etc. But the reality is they are all long shots to be impact players in the NHL.

Not to put too much of a damper on the happiest thread on the site. Some of our prospects are showing potential to be impact NHLer's. Gaudreau is incredibly exciting. Ramage and Leach could both outplay their projections. We are definitely moving in the right direction. But we are recovering from a decade of bad drafting and limited focus on prospect development. It is going to take more then 1-season to turn this around.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by kehatch

What publication, web site, or other hockey analysis forum disagrees with that? Comparatively across the NHL the Flames still have a pretty shallow prospect pool. Losing Erixon was a big loss and could account for the drop. Yes we got Baertschi, but other teams improved as well.

We have Baertschi. Other teams have RNH, Huberdeau, Schenn .... We have Brodie other teams have Erixon, Larsson, Hamilton .... We have Irving. Other teams have Bernier, Schneider, Markstrom .... We have Backlund, other teams have Hall, Seguin, Duchene ....

And those are our impact players ready to make a splash now.

Our AHL players like Nemisz, Howse, Byron, etc aren't raising too many eyebrows. The NHL ready graduates and prospects like Horak, Backlund, Bouma aren't making an immediate splash and may never.

Its fun watching our junior projects like Ferland, Reinhart, Gaudreau, Granlund, etc. But the reality is they are all long shots to be impact players in the NHL.

Not to put too much of a damper on the happiest thread on the site. Some of our prospects are showing potential to be impact NHLer's. Gaudreau is incredibly exciting. Ramage and Leach could both outplay their projections. We are definitely moving in the right direction. But we are recovering from a decade of bad drafting and limited focus on prospect development. It is going to take more then 1-season to turn this around.

If the Flames prospect pool has dropped in rankings its because some of their higher ranked players are a year old, and younger ones are either long shots or not highly rated. Nemisz will almost certainly have dropped in the overall rankings, and Brodie is likely to no longer be considered a prospect after having played in the NHL for most of the year. Howse is likely considered a bust and will likely have fallen out of our top 10 list of prospects even though he's starting to score at the AHL level now. In addition, we don't have a lot of prospects in the AHL or CHL right now, so while we may have better quality than last year, the lower quantity is almost certain to reduce the prospect base rankings as well. Our prospect list will probably look something like this

1.Baertchi
2.Gadreau
3.Nemisz
4.Irving
5. Reinhart
6. Granlund
7. Arnold
8. Ferland
9. Ramage
10. Leach


Horak and Byron will be somewhere among those players, but beyond these 12, or 13 if you add in Horak, there really aren't a lot of prospects in the Flames system.

[Vulcan]

Meanwhile Feaster is trading away our draft picks just like the Sutter. Improved drafting won't get us far when we have to rely on just a few picks.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Meanwhile Feaster is trading away our draft picks just like the Sutter. Improved drafting won't get us far when we have to rely on just a few picks.

Exactly, but when you have an ownership group that handcuffs the GM by telling him to make the playoffs NOW, these are the types of moves we're going to continue to see.

These businessmen need to use the laws of business. Invest in the future to have a future. Rather than hold on to a glimmer of hope of getting a few extra million in post-season action, they need to think about the future so they can see several millions in post-season action in the future.

So tired of mediocrity.

[Johnny Rotten]

Originally Posted by kehatch

What publication, web site, or other hockey analysis forum disagrees with that? Comparatively across the NHL the Flames still have a pretty shallow prospect pool. Losing Erixon was a big loss and could account for the drop. Yes we got Baertschi, but other teams improved as well.

We have Baertschi. Other teams have RNH, Huberdeau, Schenn .... We have Brodie other teams have Erixon, Larsson, Hamilton .... We have Irving. Other teams have Bernier, Schneider, Markstrom .... We have Backlund, other teams have Hall, Seguin, Duchene ....

And those are our impact players ready to make a splash now.

Our AHL players like Nemisz, Howse, Byron, etc aren't raising too many eyebrows. The NHL ready graduates and prospects like Horak, Backlund, Bouma aren't making an immediate splash and may never.

Its fun watching our junior projects like Ferland, Reinhart, Gaudreau, Granlund, etc. But the reality is they are all long shots to be impact players in the NHL.

Not to put too much of a damper on the happiest thread on the site. Some of our prospects are showing potential to be impact NHLer's. Gaudreau is incredibly exciting. Ramage and Leach could both outplay their projections. We are definitely moving in the right direction. But we are recovering from a decade of bad drafting and limited focus on prospect development. It is going to take more then 1-season to turn this around.

Point well taken, and I definitely see your point. There is room to grow for the Flames' prospect pool.

[rednex50]

I do not see how anyone can say Howse is "likely a bust". He is 20 years old. Came off TWO SEPERATED SHOULDERS in the playoffs last season and never missed a game with those. I have seperated one shoulder, and gained 30 pounds in a summer because of the inability to run or seriously work out (while still taking in the same calories as if you were able to work out).

Are you saying that Cody Hodgson was a bust in Vancouver after he missed an entire season with his very serious back injury? IMHO Buffalo fleeced Vancouver on that deal.

Anyways, Ryan is in his 1st pro season, was still WHL eligable, and if he was deemed a bust by the Flames, would he not have returned him to Junior. He grew up. He worked his ass off, and now is doing things that many on here never expected from him (the ability to hit hard, backcheck and take care of his end etc.) He is likely causing the most of the buzz since his return from injury as he finally gets his feet under him in the "pro" game.

Horak was more pro ready, because of his experience with International Hockey and his time with the Wolfpack. Is he front line talent? Maybe...maybe not. The same could be said about Conroy or Tanguay...but both where #1 centres in this league.

Howse and Horak are only 20. I've watched both for the past few years. The Flames have 2 great kids, hard working guys who have upside. Neither are 1 dimentional, like some scouts claim that they are. That's why I feel Howse will make a very serious push next season in camp. Could fill that 2nd/3rd line roll with Horak very well (both on ELC's so much cheaper than what the open market/Free Agency would likely cost them).

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Meanwhile Feaster is trading away our draft picks just like the Sutter. Improved drafting won't get us far when we have to rely on just a few picks.

Well Feaster traded a 2nd in the Regehr deal but brought in Byron who he thinks is going to turn out better than the player picked with the 2nd round pick. Trading a pick for a prospect is okay in my mind.

I get the Cammy deal as well the Flames had to give the pick because they were getting the best player and while the cap hit is higher the term is much shorter on the contract coming in. Holland was a nice story but unlikely he will ever make an impact at the NHL level. Ramo was also a throw in who I don't see being a huge piece either.

The PL3 trade was a complete waste of a pick though and a contract. Modin as well but that was a 7th so not crippling.

If Feaster goes through the next 2 drafts without picking in the 2nd round i will be surprised.

Last draft was very encouraging with Sven and Gaudreau being picked. I am hoping for a 7-8 inish this year but if not I really hope we slide to 13th to get into the top 8 in this year's draft where we can snag an impact player as the 2012 draft appears to be decent in high end guys but quite thin in the later part of the first round and beyond.

[Drake]

CALGARY, AB. - The Western Hockey League announced today that Portland Winterhawks’ forward Sven Bartschi is the WHL Player of the Week.

http://whl.ca/article/winterhawks-ba...er-of-the-week

[Freeway]

I should have my spring Flames prospect update done in a week or two, FYI.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Ridiculous game! Heat lose 7-6 in a SO!

Goals:

- Martin (Sylvester, Patterson)
- Wilson (Aliu, Walter)
- Jessiman (Piskula, Wilson)
- Howse (Walter, Wilson)
- Jessiman (Estoclet)
- Walter (Jessiman)

Irving with a bad game letting in 5 goals on 20 shots. Taylor came in half way through the game and let in 1 goal on 11 shots.

The BC Teachers should go on strike more often. 5800 kids and parents came out to the game today as tickets were $10 a piece to sit anywhere.

The Western conference is very tight, but the Heat are in 4th place by 1 point.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Well Feaster traded a 2nd in the Regehr deal but brought in Byron who he thinks is going to turn out better than the player picked with the 2nd round pick. Trading a pick for a prospect is okay in my mind.

I get the Cammy deal as well the Flames had to give the pick because they were getting the best player and while the cap hit is higher the term is much shorter on the contract coming in. Holland was a nice story but unlikely he will ever make an impact at the NHL level. Ramo was also a throw in who I don't see being a huge piece either.

The PL3 trade was a complete waste of a pick though and a contract. Modin as well but that was a 7th so not crippling.

If Feaster goes through the next 2 drafts without picking in the 2nd round i will be surprised.

Last draft was very encouraging with Sven and Gaudreau being picked. I am hoping for a 7-8 inish this year but if not I really hope we slide to 13th to get into the top 8 in this year's draft where we can snag an impact player as the 2012 draft appears to be decent in high end guys but quite thin in the later part of the first round and beyond.

Yeah, I know the details and the reasoning for trading the draft choices but the philosophy hasn't changed from when Sutter ruled. It's still win now and damn the future, well maybe not damned but it's not the priority which it should be when after three losing years, the team isn't improving it's getting worse.

As for Byron, I don't think he's worth a second. A second will get you a proven NHL player and Byron hasn't impressed, in fact he looks mediocre. Sure that maybe averages out to equal to the expectations of a second but you give up another chance of grabbing a star young player like a Jamie Benn (5th round) or a TJ Brodie (4th round).

I'm starting to feel that the more picks the better, no matter what round.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Yeah, I know the details and the reasoning for trading the draft choices but the philosophy hasn't changed from when Sutter ruled. It's still win now and damn the future, well maybe not damned but it's not the priority which it should be when after three losing years, the team isn't improving it's getting worse.

As for Byron, I don't think he's worth a second. A second will get you a proven NHL player and Byron hasn't impressed, in fact he looks mediocre. Sure that maybe averages out to equal to the expectations of a second but you give up another chance of grabbing a star young player like a Jamie Benn (5th round) or a TJ Brodie (4th round).

I'm starting to feel that the more picks the better, no matter what round.

Absolutely. And that needs to be the mentality. I know they aren't proven yet at the pro level, but look what Sutter and his scouting crew got with a 6th and 7th round pick: Patrick Holland and Michael Ferland. Two of the top 10 scorers in the CHL.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

As for Byron, I don't think he's worth a second. A second will get you a proven NHL player and Byron hasn't impressed, in fact he looks mediocre. Sure that maybe averages out to equal to the expectations of a second but you give up another chance of grabbing a star young player like a Jamie Benn (5th round) or a TJ Brodie (4th round).

I'm starting to feel that the more picks the better, no matter what round.

In a way yes.

But at the same time you're quoting the exceptions. Go look at the 4th and 5th rounds for the past decade and you'll find the percentage of getting a good NHLer is fairly miniscule.

In fact lots of 2nd rounders don't become NHLers. Well over 50%. If Byron turns into a decent NHLer we're okay on that deal.

But yes when rebuilding you want as many picks as possible. You have to realize though that the chance of getting a young star is extreme low in the 3-7th rounds.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

In a way yes.

But at the same time you're quoting the exceptions. Go look at the 4th and 5th rounds for the past decade and you'll find the percentage of getting a good NHLer is fairly miniscule.

In fact lots of 2nd rounders don't become NHLers. Well over 50%. If Byron turns into a decent NHLer we're okay on that deal.

But yes when rebuilding you want as many picks as possible. You have to realize though that the chance of getting a young star is extreme low in the 3-7th rounds.

Yeah, sure I've seen the odds at finding a good NHLer in the lower rounds or any round but if you don't have a pick your odds are zero. We need a home run at some stage or we are just settling for more mediocrity like Byron seems to be. If Byron doesn't win a spot next year, he's eligible for waivers so we could lose him for nothing and I don't see Byron winning a spot.
Gaudreau could be an example of swinging for the fences, he's still a gamble but a 4th rounder who can be a star.

[devo22]

Max Reinhart has had a goal and an assist so far, but Kootenay is trailing 2-3 against Swift Current after 40 minutes.

[LockedOut]

Will be interesting to see how Howse does next year with a clean slate and a good summer of conditioning. Nice to see him getting some points lately.

[devo22]

Ferland has 2 goals already as Brandon leads Regina 3-1 after two periods. Ferland now has 43 goals and 90 points ... what an offensive leap he has made, it's really promising:

2010-11: 56 games, 23 goals, 33 assists, 56 points, + 3, 1.00 points per game
2011-12: 63 games, 43 goals, 47 assists, 90 points, +15, 1.43 points per game

Not bad.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

I really wish there were advanced stats available for the public so we could see just how important players are to their team (without being able to watch them).

For example, I'd like to know if Ferland is fairly independent in his abilities or were his abilities enhanced from being on a line with a surging Mark Stone?

Oh well, I'm just happy we have some prospects who are doing this well.

[Calgary Highlander]

Ferland gets the hat-trick on an empty-netter. Very nice to see him raise his production/