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Old 06-22-2019, 08:09 PM   #1861
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Is the US closer to civil war than we think?
We should plan how to grab the good bits, Washington State's is a no brainer, makes Canada an instant tech leader, Oregon and Cali maybe.
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Old 06-22-2019, 08:56 PM   #1862
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Let's not forget about Alaska. I'd pay $50 million for that.
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Old 06-22-2019, 08:57 PM   #1863
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If we drive straight down the west coast to Mexico we'll get a naval base too!
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Old 06-22-2019, 09:58 PM   #1864
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Is the US closer to civil war than we think?
Paraphrasing here: "When conservatives find their ideals are no longer democratically viable they will not abandon conservatism, they will abandon democracy."
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Old 06-23-2019, 09:54 AM   #1865
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On a different note, anyone going to bid on Obama's first car...


forensic anthropology salary


https://www.invaluable.com/auction-l...0-g-9894adfad7
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Old 06-23-2019, 10:04 AM   #1866
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^ absolutely true. Outgoing R administrations stripping power from incoming D administrations, partisan gerrymandering at unseen levels, never compromise as foundational ideology, organized voter disenfranchisement and suppression efforts, ignoring court decisions, ignoring congressional investigations, lack of action on Foreign efforts to influence elections. Republicans don’t GAF about democracy, only about getting their vision of America.
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Old 06-23-2019, 06:08 PM   #1867
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For this reason, it is a very safe bet that there have been Iranians who have died because of the sanctions. Being unable to obtain enough life-saving medicine will inevitably increase mortality rates, as will inadequate nutrition and care for those whose health is at risk. There’s not really any way around that, and it’s only going to get worse.
And that’s exactly what was supposed to happen. As far as their intended purpose is concerned, the sanctions are working. They’re doing exactly what they were intended to do: hurt Iranian civilians.
How do I know this? Well for one thing America’s Secretary of State has said it openly. The New York Times reports the following:
Last week, Mr. Pompeo acknowledged to Michael J. Morrell, a former acting director of the C.I.A., that the administration’s strategy would not persuade Iranian leaders to change their behavior.
“I think what can change is the people can change the government,” he said on a podcast hosted by Mr. Morrell, in what appeared to be an endorsement of regime change.
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The Trump administration isn’t leveling these sanctions because it believes they’ll cause Tehran to capitulate to Washington’s impossible list of demands; they know full well that that will never happen. What they claim, based on no evidence or historical precedent whatsoever, is that by making life so painful for the hungry and malnourished Iranian people they’ll be forced to rise up against their government to effect regime change themselves.
Can you think of anything more sociopathic than this?
Off the top of my head, I personally cannot.
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This is the only reason Iran is being targeted right now. That’s why you’ll never hear a factually and logically sound argument defending Trump’s withdrawal from the nuclear deal; there is none. There was no problem with the JCPOA other than the fact that it barred America from inflicting economic warfare upon Iran, which it needed for the purpose of toppling the nation’s government so that it can be absorbed into the blob of the US-centralized empire.
https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/s...e-b52604b53290
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Old 06-23-2019, 07:27 PM   #1868
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On May 12, 1996, Madeleine Albright (then U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations) appeared on a 60 Minutes segment in which Lesley Stahl asked her "We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, are is the price worth it?" and Albright replied "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price, we think the price is worth it." Albright wrote later that Saddam Hussein, not the sanctions, was to blame.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanc...ight_interview

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Old 06-23-2019, 07:43 PM   #1869
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Nearly 100 internal Trump transition vetting documents leaked to "Axios on HBO" identify a host of "red flags" about officials who went on to get some of the most powerful jobs in the U.S. government.
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Some highlights:

Scott Pruitt, who ultimately lost his job as EPA Administrator because of serial ethical abuses and clubbiness with lobbyists, had a section in his vetting form titled "allegations of coziness with big energy companies."

Tom Price, who ultimately resigned as Health and Human Services Secretary after Trump lost confidence in him in part for stories about his use of chartered flights, had sections in his dossier flagging "criticisms of management ability" and "Dysfunction And Division Has Haunted Price's Leadership Of The House Budget Committee."

Mick Mulvaney, who became Trump's Budget Director and is now his acting chief of staff, has a striking assortment of "red flags," including his assessment that Trump "is not a very good person."

The Trump transition team was so worried about Rudy Giuliani, in line for Secretary of State, that they created a separate 25-page document titled "Rudy Giuliani Business Ties Research Dossier" with copious accounting of his "foreign entanglements."

One red flag for Gen. David Petraeus, who was under consideration for Secretary of State and National Security Adviser: "Petraeus Is Opposed to Torture."
https://www.axios.com/leaked-donald-...56020aef7.html
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Old 06-24-2019, 09:46 PM   #1870
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Old 06-25-2019, 03:19 AM   #1871
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Good Trump... bad Trump?
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Old 06-25-2019, 06:42 AM   #1872
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Iran has criticized new U.S. sanctions targeting the Islamic Republic's supreme leader and other top officials, saying Tuesday the measures spell the "permanent closure" for diplomacy between the two nations.
For his part, Iran's president described the White House as "afflicted by mental ######ation."
President Hassan Rouhani went on to call the sanctions against Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei "outrageous and idiotic," especially as the 80-year-old Shia cleric has no plans to ever travel to the United States.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/iran-c...188675?cmp=rss


That president of Iran might be on to something...
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Old 06-25-2019, 08:57 AM   #1873
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Iran is defiant of the petro-dollar and US-based global banking, two of the pillars of the US empire, their time was going to come eventually.
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Old 06-25-2019, 09:27 AM   #1874
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In my completely uneducated armchair quarterback position, I wonder if the craziness of Trump while terrifying has some level of effectiveness in dealing with the likes of Iran, China et al. These foreign states have in recent past thumbed their noses at American foreign policy, American "resolve" and largely out manouvered them because they were just so damned predictable.

Now, the craziness has done a complete 180. There's no moral compass, no strategy, nothing. Just a guy who orders an attack and then calls it off.

The true puppet master is Putin. A crazy Trump perhaps could have been effective with a defiant Russia as well, but he's in Putin's back pocket.

For clarity's sake, this is still the darkest timeline.
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Old 06-25-2019, 11:02 AM   #1875
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Originally Posted by sa226 View Post
In my completely uneducated armchair quarterback position, I wonder if the craziness of Trump while terrifying has some level of effectiveness in dealing with the likes of Iran, China et al. These foreign states have in recent past thumbed their noses at American foreign policy, American "resolve" and largely out manouvered them because they were just so damned predictable.

Now, the craziness has done a complete 180. There's no moral compass, no strategy, nothing. Just a guy who orders an attack and then calls it off.

The true puppet master is Putin. A crazy Trump perhaps could have been effective with a defiant Russia as well, but he's in Putin's back pocket.

For clarity's sake, this is still the darkest timeline.
I think that both Iran and China are playing Trump like a theremin. The Iranian government is intentionally provoking the USA to build support at home, which is really suffering as the sanctions do their work. Trump falls into the trap of being the exact enemy that they need. China continues to extend its influence overseas while Trump flexes his useless tariffs in front of the cameras. China pretends to care about the tariffs and moves their agenda forward in the East.

It's like an NHL team playing against a beer league. The NHL players don't lose because the beer leaguers do something unexpected. It takes about 15 seconds for the good players to figure out how to exploit the chaos instead.
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Old 06-25-2019, 11:19 AM   #1876
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Originally Posted by sa226 View Post
In my completely uneducated armchair quarterback position, I wonder if the craziness of Trump while terrifying has some level of effectiveness in dealing with the likes of Iran, China et al. These foreign states have in recent past thumbed their noses at American foreign policy, American "resolve" and largely out manouvered them because they were just so damned predictable.

Now, the craziness has done a complete 180. There's no moral compass, no strategy, nothing. Just a guy who orders an attack and then calls it off.

The true puppet master is Putin. A crazy Trump perhaps could have been effective with a defiant Russia as well, but he's in Putin's back pocket.

For clarity's sake, this is still the darkest timeline.

I am no expert either, but I have a feeling that this presidency is a kansas city shuffle. Everyone is looking at and listening to trump while the real work is happening the other way. There is likely a lot of work behind the scenes that can happen because no one is paying attention to them. Trump is the perfect distraction.
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Old 06-25-2019, 02:41 PM   #1877
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To your point, this is a long read but provides interesting and plausible explanations about the details of the Iran nuke deal, power politics, and the (likely) stories behind the headlines:

https://mosaicmagazine.com/observati...-really-up-to/
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Old 06-25-2019, 03:45 PM   #1878
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I think the overall republican objective is to keep the news cycle pinned on Trump and away from the democrats. Will he do something? Will he not? Big intrigue..

With the cards are on the table the likes of CNN fall prey to this crap all the time.

I hope this is the case anyways and that Bolton doesn't do something real dumb!
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Old 06-25-2019, 04:30 PM   #1879
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Those GOP reps, that refused the do their job and vote, got a state militia to threaten on the Oregon legislature on their behalf and got it shut down with police saying there was a serious threat to legislators lives.

Seriously the GOP is out of control.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/22/polit...out/index.html
Just can't help but LOL when I see crap like this, the Iran nonsense, etc., and remember that there are "centrist" dip####s like Dave Rubin who will still spout off about how political correctness and college-aged liberals are somehow the biggest threats to Western democracy.
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Old 06-25-2019, 05:45 PM   #1880
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That article doesn't say anything about the state militia.

Apparently a bunch of Republicans didn't like a bill being proposed, so they staged a walkout. Which is silly, but it's a political stunt. It's not unprecedented. In response, the Democratic governor ordered state police to track them down. Which, as far as I know, is unprecedented and completely insane. At least one of the republicans said that if the state troopers came to get him, he'd shoot back. Then several of the absent Republicans started getting threats against their lives and their families:

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The Benton County Sheriff is investigating threats made against Oregon Republican Party chairman Bill Currier, adding to the tension surrounding the standoff between the Democratic governor and runaway Republicans in the state Senate.

Mr. Currier and Becky Currier, his wife, received a total of three messages Sunday morning on their cellphones from what sounded like the same unidentified man threatening their family, according to audio recordings provided to The Washington Times.

“Bill, what if something bad happens to your family? What if somebody shoots them or something bad happens? I think you should be worried,” said one message.

Another message said: “F– you. What if something happens to your family? What if somebody gets hurt? What are you going to do then?”
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...gon-republica/

Apparently they weren't the only ones getting threats, because the Democrats decided to close the capitol altogether, citing threats from an alt-right militia. There is no actual evidence about who this militia is supposed to be, except that the Senate president said she thought maybe they were connected to the guys from Idaho who took over that Wildlife Refuge station a couple of years ago (I don't think their name was actually Y'all Qaeda, but those dudes).

At the same time, there were a number of peaceful protestors at the capitol, some of whom were members of a different militia group. When the threat against the legislature was reported, they were still there, so the Oregon GOP's twitter account posted a photo of them, sarcastically calling them a "heavily armed militia", as if they were the ones who were the threat:
https://twitter.com/statuses/1142619631095439360

That's it. There is no allegation or evidence that the GOP "got a state militia to threaten on [sic] the Oregon legislature on their behalf". I know this is thread has descended into hysterical GOP bashing at every turn, in many cases for good reason, but at least try to keep some part of your minds tethered to reality.
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