[News Roundup] CSEC/City arena deal UPDATED: Third Party Facilitator

[Fuzz]

It would be interesting to map out existing season ticket holders, and do a trip time analysis to see where the majority live closest to. I suspect Balzac would rank pretty low.

[Lord Carnage]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

Have you tried to take Glenmore from Chinook to Grey Eagle during rush hour? Good luck with that.

Originally Posted by getbak

I used to live by Chinook and went to Grey Eagle quite a lot (this was prior to the ring road) and it was a good 10-15 minute drive on a Friday/Saturday evening with basically no traffic.

Well, my experience has only been more recent, but I go from Chinook area to pick up lunch at the Dominos on Richard Road, and that takes me just over 5 minutes usually. Yes, rush hour is often longer, but games don't normally start around 5 on a weekday.

Either way, yes, that corridor wouldn't be ideal, but now with the ring road being right there, there are other options. And again - the lack of a C-Train route out there is my major concern. If there was a C-Train option, that would take care of the issue.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by Lord Carnage

Well, my experience has only been more recent, but I go from Chinook area to pick up lunch at the Dominos on Richard Road, and that takes me just over 5 minutes usually. Yes, rush hour is often longer, but games don't normally start around 5 on a weekday.

Either way, yes, that corridor wouldn't be ideal, but now with the ring road being right there, there are other options. And again - the lack of a C-Train route out there is my major concern. If there was a C-Train option, that would take care of the issue.

You do realize that a hockey game is induced volume similar to rush hour, right? Grey Eagle forces you to drive as there's no alternative way to get there. Also, you're not getting that land without a cut of revenue and CSEC has already balked at any compromise to their revenue cut.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Lord Carnage

Grey Eagle is - what - 5 minutes from Chinook Centre/MacLeod Trail? And you don't think the other amenities would spring up in the area in the time it would take the build the arena??

Really the only downside to building there would be no C-Train... and don't get me wrong - I consider that quite significant. But the lands over there should not be discarded out of hand... and I think the Tsuu T'ina Nation would consider getting that development quite the feather in their cap, so they would be eager to help out in any way.

It is more than that on a good day of traffic.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Lord Carnage

I know you have no idea who I am, but to be up front I generally roll my eyes at the majority of your posts - we just don't view things the same.

This idea - however - I find most fascinating. I have never heard nor considered this possibility, but I think it could be a great alternate location.
I think the C-train line would probably have to go underground as it causes 1/2 of the traffic problems in that area, but it's definitely an out-of-box idea.

At the end of the day though, aren't we talking the same problem? It would require a joint CSEC/City venture that is giving us the headache we are suffering from right now. Or did I miss something and the location change means something?

Putting an arena outside of the core of a city (core being amenities / commerical / residential / transit) is not an "out of the box" idea. It's an antiquated idea

[Roughneck]

I don't think people are factoring in a couple thousand cars needing to get onto 37th to get to the Grey Eagle. Those lights are gonna get a workout.



I guess that Tsuu Tina Way or whatever it is called route would open up, but that's also a couple thousand cars navigating multiple roundabouts on a single lane road.



But the fact is the Ring Road wasn't designed to get people into the Grey Eagle area efficiently. It's an area that's adjacent to a high capacity road, but it does not have high capacity access, and it is neither a city responsibility or desire to help make it any better in such a case.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Lord Carnage

This idea - however - I find most fascinating. I have never heard nor considered this possibility, but I think it could be a great alternate location.
I think the C-train line would probably have to go underground as it causes 1/2 of the traffic problems in that area, but it's definitely an out-of-box idea.

At the end of the day though, aren't we talking the same problem? It would require a joint CSEC/City venture that is giving us the headache we are suffering from right now. Or did I miss something and the location change means something?

I guess my point was simply that the City maybe would/should be willing to increase its portion of budget if the benefits extend to... The City as the Ice District in Edmonton supposedly does. I support the city not wanting to budget more for a part of the city that's essentially already thriving since the ROI would favour CSEC. That said I haven't looked into the economics of the Edmonton Ice district.

[Lord Carnage]

Originally Posted by kermitology

You do realize that a hockey game is induced volume similar to rush hour, right? Grey Eagle forces you to drive as there's no alternative way to get there. Also, you're not getting that land without a cut of revenue and CSEC has already balked at any compromise to their revenue cut.

I've been going to hockey games long enough to know that there is a volume increase, yes. But saying it is like rush hour is overstating it. Going to hockey games on Saturdays is never like trying to get out of or into the core at 5 on a weekday.

Again though, I have said more than once that the lack of a C-train route (or alternative I suppose?) is what I consider the major drawback.

As to the revenue question, that would be up to Tsuu T'ina to determine if there was an option to entire the Flames better than their previous option. Again, think of all the potential development with restaurants/etc that one would expect to have happen if the arena was going there. They would be generating a bunch more income that they could use to try and influence the Flames if they chose to go down that road.

Also, I wonder how the city would feel about a new event center being build outside the city limits? Would that be a problem or get them off the hook for having to build one??

Look, I'm not saying it is easy, or that it is good, or that it should happen... but I just get frustrated at everyone deciding it should be eliminated as an option because there are issues.

[Lord Carnage]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I guess my point was simply that the City maybe would/should be willing to increase its portion of budget if the benefits extend to... The City as the Ice District in Edmonton supposedly does. I support the city not wanting to budget more for a part of the city that's essentially already thriving since the ROI would favour CSEC. That said I haven't looked into the economics of the Edmonton Ice district.

Fair point

[Lord Carnage]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Putting an arena outside of the core of a city (core being amenities / commerical / residential / transit) is not an "out of the box" idea. It's an antiquated idea

Calgary isn't really a "standard" city with an active after-hours core. There is probably more going on around Marlborough Mall in the evenings than there is downtown.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by Lord Carnage

Calgary isn't really a "standard" city with an active after-hours core. There is probably more going on around Marlborough Mall in the evenings than there is downtown.

Lol, get out much?

[Lord Carnage]

Originally Posted by RM14

Lol, get out much?

Sure - what am I missing? Are you saying our core is active, or that the area around Marlborough is equally dead?

I can tell you the last time I was in the Marlborough area for dinner (and drove a while to get there), but I have no idea when I was last in the core in the evening except for a hockey game.

I'm not proclaiming to be an expert with a civil engineering degree or anything here guys, just giving my thoughts/opinions... I'm willing to change my mind if something gets pointed out that I'm missing.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Lord Carnage

Calgary isn't really a "standard" city with an active after-hours core. There is probably more going on around Marlborough Mall in the evenings than there is downtown.

Calgarians have a funny way of defining the downtown as only the central business district. And yeah, by that standard, those office districts in almost any North American city are not that active outside business hours. But the areas immediately surrounding the office areas are active outside those grouse. 17th Ave, for instance is every but part of the downtown of our city as 6th Avenue. Ever spend time on the river walk downtown on the weekend? Chinatown? East Village? Various areas of Beltline? Sure there is more to do to make them more vibrant than today, but in many ways we are prototypical, not atypical.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Lord Carnage

Calgary isn't really a "standard" city with an active after-hours core. There is probably more going on around Marlborough Mall in the evenings than there is downtown.

Tell me you're cultured, without telling me you're cultured.

[Lord Carnage]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Calgarians have a funny way of defining the downtown as only the central business district. And yeah, by that standard, those office districts in almost any North American city are not that active outside business hours. But the areas immediately surrounding the office fire are active outside those grouse. 17th Ave, for instance is every but part of the downtown of our city as 6th Avenue. Ever spend time on the river walk downtown on the weekend? Chinatown? East Village? Various areas of Beltline?

You’re accurate on that point. I’ve personally always identified “the core” as downtown… not belt line/east village/etc. I have never really considered 17th as downtown due to it primarily being surrounded by residential, and that may need to be re-evaluated in this discussion.

But that was always one of the reasons I thought they were pulling this whole arena district closer to the core - to revitalize the areas (east village) closer to the core. Maybe my assumptions have been wrong.

[Lord Carnage]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Tell me you're cultured, without telling me you're cultured.

Sorry - don’t know how to interpret this.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Lord Carnage

Calgary isn't really a "standard" city with an active after-hours core. There is probably more going on around Marlborough Mall in the evenings than there is downtown.

Oh i am very much aware of the scene at Olive Garden on Friday nights

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

You're operating on the basis of "that, then this" but sometimes it can be "this, then that". I agree that too far along the outskirts of town makes no sense, but I see no reason to be attached to downtown.


If the city wanted to take a page from Edmonton's playbook, they could use it as an excuse/partnership to somehow gentrify and revitalize the Forest Lawn area by turning someplace like Marlborough Mall into a hockey district. Still relatively central, easily accessible via LRT as well as Memorial Drive, reasonably close to a casino and the nearby hotels that used to benefit from Barlow trail leading to the airport. Bars and restaurants? What's the old adage? "build it and they will come"?

With the right partnerships, investment and development plan you can build a pretty sweet entertainment district pretty much anywhere. To hope that happens organically around new arena could be risky. A big advantage of an established area with existing amenities is that patronage for businesses is not solely reliant on game night.

Will businesses want to be part of a development if the arena is only active half the year (42 Flames games, a few dozen concerts, 40-ish Hitmen/Roughnecks games and a few other events throughout the year)?

[dino7c]

"the city should not give billionaires a dime! also, don't you dare build it more than 10 mins from my doorstep or else!"

people said the balzac mall would be a ghost town when it was built...now you can't find parking on a weekend

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

With the right partnerships, investment and development plan you can build a pretty sweet entertainment district pretty much anywhere. To hope that happens organically around new arena could be risky. A big advantage of an established area with existing amenities is that patronage for businesses is not solely reliant on game night.

Will businesses want to be part of a development if the arena is only active half the year (42 Flames games, a few dozen concerts, 40-ish Hitmen/Roughnecks games and a few other events throughout the year)?

100% this. Especially true for Calgary and the winter when most hockey games will be held.