Star destroyers are the Lieutenant Worf of science fiction capital ships. appear to be intimidating and competent at first glance, but usually just fail at their basic function (space security) when actually tested. the only time they've been shown to do what they're supposed to is the start of ANH and the end of R1. everything in between that is a yakety sax montage of them losing an enemy, running into asteroids, running into each other, dying by ion cannon, dying by A-wing, etc.
I always assumed that was part of Lucas' vision. The Empire was supposed to be a bloated bureaucracy and the Empire's ships reflected that. The Empire also worked under the vision that anything bigger and more fear inspiring was better. The Empire was basically like that guy who spends a crap load of cash to drive a Hummer or a G63 AMG on tight city streets.
Meanwhile the Rebellion was able to survive, as they'd put an emphasis on mobility and adaptability.
Everything in the empire was built to intimidate as many as possible, mainly because of the sheer size of the galaxy and the number of people that lived there. The Imperial fleet had thousands of Star Destroyers, but in the grand scheme of things that was nowhere near enough to placate the galaxy.
Venators were designed as Star Fighter Carriers. Star Destroyers carried 70 non hyperspace capable fighters but were really designed to intimidate. We saw their power in terms of planetary blockades and Bombardment in Rebels. But they weren' suited for anything else.
If anything they were designed as peacekeeping weapons that would never have to face a serious challenge in space because there wasn't another military to face them.
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Its funny you say this because I've ranted against Star Destroyers and Imperial Technology and design for a while now.
For instance, in Kenobi they were being chased by a Star Destroyer, a vessel literally bristling with weaponry and they were firing....one laser.
What? Is there a quota? Do you pay by the blast or something? You want to destroy that ship right? Fire everything!!
The stupidest thing about Star Destroyers is that they rely on shield generators that are the two easiest to target giant balls sitting right on top of the ship - and we see in the movies that they are...unshielded.
The stupidest thing about Star Destroyers is that they rely on shield generators that are the two easiest to target giant balls sitting right on top of the ship - and we see in the movies that they are...unshielded.
Well yeah, but the other dumbest thing is that a 10km long massive super star destroyer that is labeled as a command ship didn't have a secondary bridge. When the first bridge was taken out that thing fell like a lawn dart.
Also in the day and age of holo repeaters and high definition screens to have the bridges sticking out on a huge office tower like structure is crazy stupid.
I do want to add on that they talked about the unshielded nature of the tie fighters, but in the OT movies the heavily shielded X-Wings seemed to get one shot a lot .
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Leia's hologram in ANH doesn't make any sense now, unless you headcanon that she thought the Ben Kenobi that saved her when she was 10 was not the same as a General Kenobi that her father instructed her to get in contact with. Her message is so formal, as if she has never met this person before and she addresses him as general.
Quote:
General Kenobi. Years ago you served my father in the Clone Wars. Now he begs you to help him in his struggle against the Empire. I regret that I am unable to present my father's request to you in person, but my ship has fallen under attack, and I'm afraid my mission to bring you to Alderaan has failed. I have placed information vital to the survival of the Rebellion into the memory systems of this R2 unit. My father will know how to retrieve it. You must see this droid safely delivered to him on Alderaan. This is our most desperate hour. Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi. You're my only hope.
Leia's hologram in ANH doesn't make any sense now, unless you headcanon that she thought the Ben Kenobi that saved her when she was 10 was not the same as a General Kenobi that her father instructed her to get in contact with. Her message is so formal, as if she has never met this person before and she addresses him as general.
The last thing Ben says to her is to pretend like she doesn’t know him, so they closed that loop hole.
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Yeah, I thought that they closed that loop as well with the last conversation between Ben and her.
If she had said. "Years ago you rescued me when I was 10 because my Dad and Mom asked you to and he's asking for your help again". The Empire would have known for sure that Bail and his wife were traitors and it was in the open and made an example out of them.
It would have sort of justified the Death Star destruction of Alderaan.
Palpatine in a public address "Senator Organa was a traitor he conspired with a Jedi General after they were outlawed for betraying the Republic and attempting to assassinate me. "
Alderaan was a rogue planet and a launching point for the Rebellion under the direction of the Organa's"
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The stupidest thing about Star Destroyers is that they rely on shield generators that are the two easiest to target giant balls sitting right on top of the ship - and we see in the movies that they are...unshielded.
They are literally the ship's testicles. Just hanging on out there in the open. All fragile and whatnot.
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I find it funny how we see Vader isn't a guy that finishes his business in this series.
1. Stabs Reva in the gut, doesn't make sure she's dead and walks away casually
2. Buries Obi Wan under a bunch of rocks, doesn't make sure he's dead and walks away casually. I kind of wish he had a line like "you entombed me to this suit, now I will entomb you here!" to justify that
I had only recently watched the first two seasons of The Clone Wars, but I was chuckling with my wife during that scene how it was “so Anikin” to think “yeah I dumped a bunch of rocks on him, all done!”
I'm probably going to have to go back and watch TCW again. I mean as the series got older we got so many proto Vader moments.
Anakin torturing Poggle the Lesser
Anakin through the whole Slaver arc including standing back and watching the Slaver Queen being executed.
Beating Padme's former boyfriend almost to death.
Outright murdering people with no mercy.
The whole basis of Anakin is that he was emotionally unstable. Attachments to his friends were everything, he could never let them go, and he'd do anything to save them.
In the Father, Son, Daughter arch, he was willing to free a great evil no matter what the cost to end the war.
I've said it all along. The Vader that we saw in Kenobi, wasn't Vader, that was all Anakin. Driven probably by grief over Padme's death and the loss of his children, rage at Obi-Wan for crippling him. Proabably a lot of self loathing. And hatred at being seduced by Sidious.
We finally saw the death of Anakin, I mean he was driven deep during the conversation with Obi-Wan, when he said that he killed Anakin Skywalker. I believe that happened the minute that Obi slashed his mask and Anakin was forced to not only look at the monster that he had become, but accept that he was the monster that was Vader. But the final step over that threshold, was again provided by Sidious, when he told him that his obsession with Kenobi made him not stronger but weaker. Revenge, Rage, hatred are absolutely a tool for the Sith to call on and command the Dark side of the Force. But at the end of the day, a Sith is a Force User that wants to remove all of the chains that make you weak. want to acquire power, and why? Because they believe in a higher notion, and a higher mission. They want order and justice and to rule.
Anakin didn't die on Mustafar or even for 10 years after his transformation. He "died" when Obi-Wan defeated him and Vader realized that Anakin was weak and he had to evolve.
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The terrible aim of that star destroyer was on par with the terrible aim of the storm troopers throughout the rest of the show. Disbelief must be fully suspended to not have the silliness negatively impact the viewing experience.
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An argument could be made that those massive guns on Star Destroyers are meant to hit large targets, namely the separatists equivalents of star destroyers during the clone wars. Tiny ships like the one carrying the refugees is hard to hit. Many times Star Destroyers send out fighters when they are hunting small ships which makes sense.
It would be like using old rickety WWII artillery to try and hit a single human target while he's riding a modern racing motorcycle.
Of all the ridiculousness in Star Wars, this conundrum is low on my priority list.
Leia survived space. A 9-year old Anakin Skywalker programmed C3PO not to translate Sith language. Ewoks tossed some logs at AT-ST death machine. Rey has the power of 1000 Jedi generations in her. The list goes on.
When you look at the various source books and the essential guides including the Essential guide to Warfare. The Star Destroyer was designed with specific tasks in mind, and because of that overall it was not a really good design as the Rebellion gained in strength.
During the Clone Wars the main Republic Star Ships were the Venator and the Acclaimer. These were ships designed to fight a war.
The Venator was meant to fight battles as a Carrier and Assault vessels. It carried hundreds of Star Fighters including the heavy ARC-170, the Z-95 Headhunter and the V-Wing fighters. It had 8 heavy Turbo Lasers for ship to ship battles, plus hundreds of light anti-starfighter turrets. They could carry 2000 clone troopers and their equipment including walkers. The Venator could also land and act as an assault base.
Basically in a battle, the Venator would launch an overwhelming wave of fighters to overwhelm the enemy and standoff with its heavy Turbo lasers.
The Venator worked in conjunction with the Acclaimer which is like a modern troop carrier that could double as a carrier. But could carry 16,000 clone troopers and their equipment it was designed around orbital bombardment but could reconfigure to ship to ship using a barrage of missiles, and had a ton of light point defense canons. Again the Acclaimer was designed to fight in a war.
The Empire decided after the war that the need for those type of ships wasn't needed. They weren't going to be facing an organized military opposition. More along the lines of pirates, smugglers, and light capital ships run by small insurgencies.
So they designed the Star Destroyer to be intimidating work effectively as blockade ships, and intimidate planets with orbital bombarment. For that they were probably well designed. But the Star Destroyer lacked point defense. They carried very few fighters that weren't hyperspace capable and were unshielded, they also didn't expect to face ships that could stand toe to toe with them with their heavy quad turbo lasers.
So when the Rebellion got organized and stole the Calamari Cruisers and the X-Wing hyperspace capable shielded fighters the Star Destroyers while still awesome in a stand up fight, didn't function really well against the hit and fade of the Rebels hyperspace capable fighters or a determined fighter attack. Their heavy turbolasers weren't super accurate against a nimble fast ship, and the Star Destroyer didn't have point defense turrets or super accurate rapid firing light turbo lasers.
Also unlike the Venator and Acclaimer who had protected shield generators. The Star Destroyers were designed with the Shield generators, scanners, and communication array in an exposed position, because they didn't expect to be seriously challenged by dozens of fighters at a time and capital ships wouldn't last long against the Star Destroyers sunday punch.
We saw in Rogue One that problem was really exposed when the Rebel Bombers did a heavy Ion Torpedo run against a Star Destroyer.
But we also saw the height of Star Destroyer power and effectiveness in Rebels when Star Destroyers with Interdictors basically trapped the Rebels and unleashed a hellish orbital bombardment.
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Just an add on, the other significant problem with Star Destroyers, is the small hanger bay that made it difficult to launch fighters at more then 4 at a time.
With the Venator its entire top side was one massive hanger where they could launch fighters very quickly.
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The terrible aim of that star destroyer was on par with the terrible aim of the storm troopers throughout the rest of the show. Disbelief must be fully suspended to not have the silliness negatively impact the viewing experience.
Even worse now that I think about it, Vader has a hyperdrive capable shuttle and there are fleets of Tie Fighters inside the Star Destroyer. He could have easily said: "I will follow Kenobi in my personal craft, take the Star Destroyer and pursue the transport to oblivion"
I think I got it...the remaining shard of Anakin was still merciful, which is why he wouldn't kill Reva, let Ben escape their first encounter, couldn't/wouldn't destroy the transport (low key force bubble to keep it safe during the chase!), and walked away from Ben under rocks without verifying death. it's like poetry, it rhymes.
I think I got it...the remaining shard of Anakin was still merciful, which is why he wouldn't kill Reva, let Ben escape their first encounter, couldn't/wouldn't destroy the transport (low key force bubble to keep it safe during the chase!), and walked away from Ben under rocks without verifying death. it's like poetry, it rhymes.
I don't think the Reva leaving her alive meshes with the Obi-Wan stuff or even if Anakin was being all that merciful.
I do agree with the concept of it still being Anakin under the mask and not the Vader that we see a decade later. Vader came into being after the last duel with Obi-Wan and after his talk with Sidious.
He didn't kill Reva because it wasn't worth the effort. He saw her as not being a threat to him, and not being anywhere near his level. Also letting her suffer with a gut stab seems like something that Anakin would do because he's driven by his emotions. He probably saw her betrayal as stupid and without a lot of thought behind it.
He didn't pursue Obi-Wan after dragging him through the fire, because leaving Obi-Wan hurt and crippled and burned was probably satisfying and he knew he was going to keep up the hunt so he would run into Obi again. But as he said to Obi-Wan, his suffering was just beginning. He was probably caught savoring the moment more then anything else.
The later Vader, the actual Vader not Anakin/Vader wouldn't have bothered with the suffering aspect. We saw that on the Death Star.
At the end of the last duel with Obi-Wan we probably saw the at the time death of Anakin, and Vader being driven deeply into the Darkside. Then Sidious basically said that he had to get by the whole sole focus on Obi-Wan or it would weaken him and make him a slave to that.
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