06-09-2022, 08:11 AM
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#4361
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Pent-up
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Plutanamo Bay.
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Imagine thinking protecting the sanctity of womens sports was to inspect their genitals and not to do something about the insane amount of sexual harassment/abuse that has been plaguing womens sport for… ever?
But records, it’s all about records.
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06-09-2022, 08:15 AM
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#4362
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NOT breaking news
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matata
I know it's easy to dismiss the issue and say "just let them play", but it's clear at this point that it is extremely irresponsible and dangerous, in the cases of contact sport, to allow biological men to compete with women. So how does the sanctity of women's sport be maintained? Women's sport only exists so that women can compete without having to overcome the massive biological advantage of being a man. Even at the current pace of there only being a slow intake of biological men entering women's sport, it's enough that in 10-20 years time, the majority of women sporting records could conceivably be held by biological men.
I get what they've proposed is gross and seemingly a step too far, but it also sounds like the vast majority of female athletes wouldn't be subject to this test. It's usually pretty obvious when a recently transitioned individual is competing with the girls. Is the sanctity of women's sport so inconsequential that obvious cases of biological men competing cannot be rooted out? Can you suggest a better method of protecting women's sport?
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This is big tent politics. Either you are protecting women's sports or protecting the right of transgendered to be women. Who gets to decide? And why is the government involved in high school sports other than to pass their own agenda? Remember we're talking about inspecting the genitals of minors.
This debate happens in beauty pagaents too and that's not even athletically competitive.
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Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire
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06-09-2022, 08:34 AM
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#4363
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Referee
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Calgary
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Zero kids should need to have their genitals checked for anything than a legit medical reason as determined by their doctor. Zero.
How many Trans kids are playing sports or will play sports at the teenage level? We know Utah's terrible law affected a single MTF kid (as it didn't affect the other 4 FTM kids). In the entire state. Imagine being 14 or whatever seeing a law passed that targets just you? Unreal.
People are losing sight of the fact that most kids just want to play sports with their peers, have fun, and these kinds of laws prevent that - if a kid is gifted enough to get an NCAA scholarship or go pro as an adult, that is a different discussion. I mean Lia Thomas won one NCAA title, but people also overlook that she also came in last in another event and didn't reach the podium in the rest.
The 'sanctity of women's sports' for teenagers is a deflection. There's a fear that a bunch of boys will just decide to identify as girls so they can win - kind of like that South Park Strong Woman episode - which again completely misses the point of youth sports.
Will some idiot kid try to do it? Yep. Do we need laws? Nah, because being trans isn't a fad, it is their life, and often life or death. The RL Eric Cartman's of the world are few and far between (wow, two SP references in one post!) and will be exposed if they do try.
The cruelty of these laws and the inhumanity of the supporters of these laws is a feature, not a bug.
It was hard enough for me 25 years ago being the gay kid on a baseball team - I just wanted to hang out with my friends and feel 'normal'. I can't remember all the emotions of what I went through as a kid, but I do remember those times I was just one of the guys.
Again, let me be very clear and loud for those reading this in the back: the cruelty of these laws and the inhumanity of the supporters of these laws is a feature, not a bug.
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06-09-2022, 09:46 AM
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#4364
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Truculent!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GirlySports
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The US's descent into madness continues.
What a gross country.
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06-09-2022, 09:59 AM
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#4365
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matata
I know it's easy to dismiss the issue and say "just let them play", but it's clear at this point that it is extremely irresponsible and dangerous, in the cases of contact sport, to allow biological men to compete with women.
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No, it's not. Yes, on average men are bigger and stronger than women, but that's just an average. It's no more "irresponsible and dangerous" than letting Zdeno Chara play against Johnny Gaudreau. That size difference is much bigger than the average size difference of biological men and women.
Quote:
Women's sport only exists so that women can compete without having to overcome the massive biological advantage of being a man. Even at the current pace of there only being a slow intake of biological men entering women's sport, it's enough that in 10-20 years time, the majority of women sporting records could conceivably be held by biological men.
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No, it's not conceivable that that could happen, not at this pace. There are still vanishingly few transgender athletes, and even fewer of them are in any way dominant.
Quote:
I get what they've proposed is gross and seemingly a step too far, but it also sounds like the vast majority of female athletes wouldn't be subject to this test. It's usually pretty obvious when a recently transitioned individual is competing with the girls.
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"Sounds like" and "Usually pretty obvious" are terrible measurements. Obviously you're not going to notice the non-obvious cases, and just in general you can't start checking people's genitals on wishywashy ideas like this.
Quote:
Is the sanctity of women's sport so inconsequential that obvious cases of biological men competing cannot be rooted out? Can you suggest a better method of protecting women's sport?
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First of all, "obvious cases of biological men" needing to be "rooted out" is not a thing to begin with, and second, a genital check does not help. Here's an example of someone who would be categorized as a woman based on a genital check, Buck Angel.
As long as people are not competing with genitals, there's no point in checking the genitals.
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06-09-2022, 10:24 AM
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#4366
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First Line Centre
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Based on what is happening in the south involving trans rights, it seems rather apparent now that the right used trans kids in sports as a wedge issue to further ban trans conversion.
I remember having beers with a few friend 4-5 years ago who were so outraged about trans women in women sports. These guys were late 20's early 30s with zero kids. Who the f cares?
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06-09-2022, 10:30 AM
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#4367
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Red Deer
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A problem manufactured in their own heads over an issue they have no interest in understanding in the slightest.
__________________
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06-09-2022, 10:34 AM
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#4368
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Lifetime In Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappy
Based on what is happening in the south involving trans rights, it seems rather apparent now that the right used trans kids in sports as a wedge issue to further ban trans conversion.
I remember having beers with a few friend 4-5 years ago who were so outraged about trans women in women sports. These guys were late 20's early 30s with zero kids. Who the f cares?
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It’s not about trans kids it’s about using the T as kindling to set fire to the rights of all the other letters along with it. Make no mistake they despise the LGBTQA community and the goal is to roll back rights for what they idiotically view as a choice.
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06-09-2022, 10:59 AM
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#4369
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Participant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResAlien
It’s not about trans kids it’s about using the T as kindling to set fire to the rights of all the other letters along with it. Make no mistake they despise the LGBTQA community and the goal is to roll back rights for what they idiotically view as a choice.
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Basically. They more or less lost the battle against gay rights and the “satanic pedophile” type messaging isn’t playing much, so they’ve shifted focus to trans kids to score a W.
Anyone with half a brain could see this coming when they started in with the “pedophiles pretending to be women lurking in bathrooms to touch your daughters” stuff.
And anyone who mildly entertained the above messaging (of which there were plenty on this board) is partly responsible for this acceleration, and, to speak politely, can feel free to kick their own face in.
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06-09-2022, 11:32 AM
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#4370
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matata
I know it's easy to dismiss the issue and say "just let them play", but it's clear at this point that it is extremely irresponsible and dangerous, in the cases of contact sport, to allow biological men to compete with women. So how does the sanctity of women's sport be maintained? Women's sport only exists so that women can compete without having to overcome the massive biological advantage of being a man. Even at the current pace of there only being a slow intake of biological men entering women's sport, it's enough that in 10-20 years time, the majority of women sporting records could conceivably be held by biological men.
I get what they've proposed is gross and seemingly a step too far, but it also sounds like the vast majority of female athletes wouldn't be subject to this test. It's usually pretty obvious when a recently transitioned individual is competing with the girls. Is the sanctity of women's sport so inconsequential that obvious cases of biological men competing cannot be rooted out? Can you suggest a better method of protecting women's sport?
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Weird that the "government is run by pedos" crowd is fully in favour of mandating the government examine kids' genitals.
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06-09-2022, 11:35 AM
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#4371
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wins 10 internets
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: slightly to the left
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappy
Based on what is happening in the south involving trans rights, it seems rather apparent now that the right used trans kids in sports as a wedge issue to further ban trans conversion.
I remember having beers with a few friend 4-5 years ago who were so outraged about trans women in women sports. These guys were late 20's early 30s with zero kids. Who the f cares?
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They need someone to hate so they don't look too closely at their own problems
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06-09-2022, 11:43 AM
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#4372
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappy
Based on what is happening in the south involving trans rights, it seems rather apparent now that the right used trans kids in sports as a wedge issue to further ban trans conversion.
I remember having beers with a few friend 4-5 years ago who were so outraged about trans women in women sports. These guys were late 20's early 30s with zero kids. Who the f cares?
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The basis of these laws is just pure homophobia. They are worried that might be attracted to someone they consider “male” and that might make them gay.
How I am supposed to objectify women if they might have a penis. I demand confirmation.
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06-09-2022, 11:44 AM
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#4373
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sunnyvale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itse
No, it's not. Yes, on average men are bigger and stronger than women, but that's just an average. It's no more "irresponsible and dangerous" than letting Zdeno Chara play against Johnny Gaudreau. That size difference is much bigger than the average size difference of biological men and women.
No, it's not conceivable that that could happen, not at this pace. There are still vanishingly few transgender athletes, and even fewer of them are in any way dominant.
"Sounds like" and "Usually pretty obvious" are terrible measurements. Obviously you're not going to notice the non-obvious cases, and just in general you can't start checking people's genitals on wishywashy ideas like this.
First of all, "obvious cases of biological men" needing to be "rooted out" is not a thing to begin with, and second, a genital check does not help. Here's an example of someone who would be categorized as a woman based on a genital check, Buck Angel.
As long as people are not competing with genitals, there's no point in checking the genitals.
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Is it more manly to **** Buck Angel or to suck Bailey Jay’s d***? Perhaps that should be a thread all on its own.
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06-09-2022, 01:27 PM
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#4374
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itse
No, it's not. Yes, on average men are bigger and stronger than women, but that's just an average. It's no more "irresponsible and dangerous" than letting Zdeno Chara play against Johnny Gaudreau. That size difference is much bigger than the average size difference of biological men and women.
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It's so much more than size: it's testosterone levels, muscle structure, bone density, reaction times, grip strength, etc. The athletic gap between men and women is staggering once you start looking at the data. Put Johnny in a womens league and he gets 20 points every night without trying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itse
No, it's not conceivable that that could happen, not at this pace. There are still vanishingly few transgender athletes, and even fewer of them are in any way dominant.
"Sounds like" and "Usually pretty obvious" are terrible measurements. Obviously you're not going to notice the non-obvious cases, and just in general you can't start checking people's genitals on wishywashy ideas like this.
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No issues here, this all looks good to you? No women are being harmed? #### those bitches for not standing with that heroic trans-women?
Quote:
First of all, "obvious cases of biological men" needing to be "rooted out" is not a thing to begin with, and second, a genital check does not help. Here's an example of someone who would be categorized as a woman based on a genital check, Buck Angel.
As long as people are not competing with genitals, there's no point in checking the genitals.
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Again, there are 0 instances of biological women competing at a high level with men.
e: homeboy is 5'8 and probably no more than 140-150 lb. lol.
Last edited by Matata; 06-09-2022 at 01:34 PM.
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06-09-2022, 02:06 PM
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#4375
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubecube
Weird that the "government is run by pedos" crowd is fully in favour of mandating the government examine kids' genitals.
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The Elites are all about boning kids and trans-humanism. Try and keep up, yeesh.
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06-09-2022, 02:23 PM
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#4376
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Boca Raton, FL
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^^^In that photo above, I'm far more concerned about the cultures around the world that subjugate women, forcing them to cover their their entire bodies and heads (thankfully they can show their faces at least), rather than any concern I have over extremely rare cases of strength and size issues in women sports.
It's sports. It's largely inconsequential to life. It's meant to be for fun.
Cultural oppression of women is more concerning to me, including those that have gender dysphoria and identify as female.
More importantly, I find any law that specifically targets an extreme minority for something perceived to be an issue, but is something that is literally the smallest inconvenience to our society...well I find those laws completely abhorrent and unnecessary.
It's like those laws that enforced bathroom designations...totally pointless and specifically targets a very small minority group.
there are bigger fish to fry...now can we get back to yelling about gun control and abortion?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResAlien
If we can't fall in love with replaceable bottom 6 players then the terrorists have won.
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06-09-2022, 02:32 PM
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#4377
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Lifetime Suspension
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So all the girls getting hurt, losing scholarships and spots on teams can eat #### because you're not concerned? I think they already know that.
People dedicate their lives to sport to win. "You play to have fun and make friends" are words of comfort for a child, not motivators for a competitive athlete.
Normalizing this doesnt make it go away, it would only accelerate the impact on female sport.
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06-09-2022, 02:53 PM
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#4378
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Referee
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matata
So all the girls getting hurt, losing scholarships and spots on teams can eat #### because you're not concerned? I think they already know that.
People dedicate their lives to sport to win. "You play to have fun and make friends" are words of comfort for a child, not motivators for a competitive athlete.
Normalizing this doesnt make it go away, it would only accelerate the impact on female sport.
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Give us numbers then. How many lost scholarships? There are 460,000 NCAA athletes across all sports, all genders. So tell me? (btw: 32 trans athletes all time in NCAA history - both genders)
Your previous post was talking about teenagers, where sports quite frankly, are to have fun and learn social skills. If only 2% of NCAA athletes even go pro in their sports, what are the odds of any kid playing sports going pro?
When we get to high-performance, which is a different topic - the regulation should be on the individual sport bodies. Politicians will just muck it all up, especially American ones.
This is just cruelty on kids, but that's what people who support this want. They get off on the cruelty, disguised as deep concern for _____ <insert platitude here>.
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Last edited by MRCboicgy; 06-09-2022 at 06:16 PM.
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06-09-2022, 05:54 PM
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#4379
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matata
It's so much more than size: it's testosterone levels, muscle structure, bone density, reaction times, grip strength, etc. The athletic gap between men and women is staggering once you start looking at the data.
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There's three main problems with your logic here.
First, again, those are all just averages.
Second, human physiology is not binary. The whole basis of your argument rests on the idea that all people are either biological men or women, but that's just not humans work. There's plenty of people on the spectrum in between, and that applies to the whole physiology. Just because someone has one set of genitals or another doesn't mean that the rest of their body is what you would assume based on those genitals.
The third problem with your logic is, if those are the things you care about, then why not limit those things instead of genitals? After all, those are all measurable things. (Not sure about muscle structure.) In other words, make up your mind already. Is this about genitals or not? If it's about testosterone levels, reaction times and grip strength, then set limits on those things.
Quote:
No issues here, this all looks good to you? No women are being harmed? #### those bitches for not standing with that heroic trans-women?
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So, was someone actually harmed there? Again, just because you're uncomfortable with something is not an argument.
And yeah, that podium pic seems pretty bad. I don't see how posting a picture of what looks like crap behavior helps your case that this is not about just people behaving like crap towards each other?
Quote:
e: homeboy is 5'8 and probably no more than 140-150 lb. lol.
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So, obvious female genitals and he's small enough to not be a problem, so I assume that you're trying to argue that Buck Angel is an obvious female that should be competing in women's sports?
Because that's what you're trying to argue, isn't it? That people can be divided into obvious males and obvious females by looking into their pants.
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06-09-2022, 06:07 PM
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#4380
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Craig McTavish' Merkin
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I knew a girl in elementary school who was intersex. It was hard to comprehend back then but she said she used to have both body parts down there so I assume she had surgery to hide the male bits. She seemed like a girl in every way except she was the biggest kid in our class and beat just about everyone in sports.
Do these people have a problem with someone like her? She would have a vagina if you looked but she might have internal testicles pumping out testosterone. Is it fair for her to compete with girls? Of course, but she probably has every advantage a trans woman does, so why don't we hear about banning intersex women?
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