A Tale of Two Tkachuks

[Lanny_McDonald]

The problem isn't Tkachuk, it's Bennett. For all the hustle and effort Sam Bennett brings, he completely fails to generate anything tangible on the scoreboard. Sam is still poor at finishing, doesn't use his team mates worth a damn, and lets plays die on his stick. He's become this generation's Paul Ranheim. Love the hustle and energy, but the guy doesn't have the connection between the head and the hands to be effective in an offensive role. Bennett has become a 4th liner on this team, and it is hard to see Tkachuk remain an offensive force when he's tied to a guy like Bennett. Couple that with Ryan, and oy vey, Tkachuk is the only player on the line with the talent to make stuff happen. It is easy to see why he isn't scoring 5-on-5.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Excellent. We needed another Bennett thread

[Lanny_McDonald]

And what do you suggest? Frying Tkachuk for something that clearly isn't his problem? What's next? Blaming Gaudreau for having a high give away rate? Oh wait...

[DeluxeMoustache]

Here is a question related to Tkachuk, who used to draw a lot of penalties

Firstly, for context, Flames are 29th in the league in penalties taken vs drawn.
Peters has been known for discipline. Tkachuk hasn’t drawn a penalty in a while. Tkachuk has seemed less engaged lately. The Flames can’t buy a call.

The question, I guess, is just... what’s the deal with that?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Tkachuk doesn't have players that are getting him the puck to draw those penalties. It is hard to draw a penalty when you aren't the puck carrier or in the middle of the play. Bennett's first instinct when he gets the puck is to try and beat everyone on the ice in a glorious end-to-end rush. He rarely gets the puck and tries to make a heady pass to one of his linemates. This hurts Tkachuk because he is a guy that finds the open ice and forces defenders to take penalties trying to prevent a five star scoring opportunity. As good a distributor of the puck as Tkachuk is, he needs someone to get him the puck for him to be effective in the first place.

[jessnuts]

Isn’t 8 points in 12 games prorated to 12 pts in 18 games? So one less point?

[Royle9]

News Flash:

The 3M line wasn't producing nearly as great as they had been the last 2 seasons long before Bennett was put on the 2nd line. Backlunds numbers are down significantly as well, the Tkachuk-Backlund-Czarnik line didnt work either but I suppose that's Bennett's fault as well

Our 2nd line this season has been dogsh_t, we need to change it up completely. Put Tkachuk on the left with Neal on the right and let someone other than Derek Ryan center the 2nd line and see what happens.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by New Era

Tkachuk doesn't have players that are getting him the puck to draw those penalties. It is hard to draw a penalty when you aren't the puck carrier or in the middle of the play. Bennett's first instinct when he gets the puck is to try and beat everyone on the ice in a glorious end-to-end rush. He rarely gets the puck and tries to make a heady pass to one of his linemates. This hurts Tkachuk because he is a guy that finds the open ice and forces defenders to take penalties trying to prevent a five star scoring opportunity. As good a distributor of the puck as Tkachuk is, he needs someone to get him the puck for him to be effective in the first place.

Since you are basing your comments on the eye test rather than advanced stats, I will respond with what the eye test has told me.

First, Tkachuk has continued to be the attention of infractions that should draw penalties, but they are being called less frequently. Many things could be causing this, including a change in the league-wide standards for calling infractions, or if you admit that officials are human, maybe being subconsciously biased against the Flames for Johnny's repetitive mouthing off/trying to show them up or Peters' critical comments about them in post-game pressers.

Second, prior to going down to injury, it seemed as if Backlund had been shooting/taking the puck straight to the net more this year rather than passing, and unfortunately lacked finish. Where last year he might have passed to Tkachuk if he wasn't getting a good look, this year he had been trying to do it himself. Backlund is really a better set-up man than finisher, and should probably try to pass the puck more often if he's not set up for a high-risk shot.

I agree that Bennett sometimes tries to do too much himself and doesn't use his teammates as well as he could, but frankly, nobody else who has been tried at that spot has made Backlund or Tkachuk any better (although Frolik scored goals, his linemates did no better).

[stang]

Originally Posted by gt4flames

The flames drafted Eric Nystrom 9th overall...he never lived up to the draft pedigree of a top 10 pick but he was a solid player for the flames for a long time. Its unfortunate Bennett isnt going to be a Yzerman, Kariya, Backstrom, Johansen, or Ladd.. (all 4th overall picks) but as long as he keeps up being the player he is now, we should be thankful he isnt turning out to be a Hickey, Zhedev, or Weiss (and for the Calgary connection Pavel Brendl)( OR the Edmonton connection Adam Larsson, or Griffen Reinhart)

Weird player in there. Adam Larsson is a good defenceman. Solid defensively, logs 20 min plus, and has the same amount of points as Bennet. Doesn’t belong where you grouped him.

[Manhattanboy]

On 960 this morning they were talking about this being an interesting time for MT without Backlund and Frolic. Can he carry a line by himself?

[rain_e]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

On 960 this morning they were talking about this being an interesting time for MT without Backlund and Frolic. Can he carry a line by himself?

He's not required to carry a line. Bennett has to carry the lines he's on because the Flames drafted him in the 4th spot. Bennett's fault the Flames drafted him there. Let's trade him now!

[jlh2640]

I like Tkachuk and I like Bennett. Should the the on the same line. Time will tell

[SuperMatt18]

I’m not following your logic about his Even Strength production.

13 points in 18 games before Bennett - .72 PPG

8 points in 12 games with Bennett - .67 PPG

So all of a sudden Bennett is a problem playing with Tkachuk because he’s producing at a rate of .05 PPG lower with Bennett than without. Or the equivalent of 4 whole points over a season - feels like a stretch to me.

Sounds like the answer to me to get Tkachuk more ice time is less about Bennett and more about double shifting him on the 3rd or 4th lines to get more ice time. Especially when our depth is thinner due to injury.

[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I’m not following your logic about his Even Strength production.

13 points in 18 games before Bennett - .72 PPG

8 points in 12 games with Bennett - .67 PPG

So all of a sudden Bennett is a problem playing with Tkachuk because he’s producing at a rate of .05 PPG lower with Bennett than without. Or the equivalent of 4 whole points over a season - feels like a stretch to me.

Sounds like the answer to me to get Tkachuk more ice time is less about Bennett and more about double shifting him on the 3rd or 4th lines to get more ice time. Especially when our depth is thinner due to injury.

New Era just has a massive bias against Bennett and doesn't like to listen to statistics that prove Bennett is actually a good player and not nearly as bad as he tries to make him out to be

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I’m not following your logic about his Even Strength production.

13 points in 18 games before Bennett - .72 PPG

8 points in 12 games with Bennett - .67 PPG

So all of a sudden Bennett is a problem playing with Tkachuk because he’s producing at a rate of .05 PPG lower with Bennett than without. Or the equivalent of 4 whole points over a season - feels like a stretch to me.

Sounds like the answer to me to get Tkachuk more ice time is less about Bennett and more about double shifting him on the 3rd or 4th lines to get more ice time. Especially when our depth is thinner due to injury.

I'm contrasting it to his pp production.

During a period where he was clearly feeling it offensively he saw a slight decline in even strength production.

So it's not an indication that he is struggling that accounts for the decline in production but in my mind it's obvious it's a linemate issue.

The other corresponding point to that is backlund and tkachuk getting even start points.over that period when Bennett is not in the ice with them. Production rate is crude because I couldn't find information on who was in the ice for each point, but for example one of those even strength points came when Czar replaced Bennett in the third period in Columbus.

If you had stats in who has been in the ice for each even strength point for that line since November 15, I would love to see it.

It's a feeling I get watching the games.

[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by New Era

The problem isn't Tkachuk, it's Bennett. For all the hustle and effort Sam Bennett brings, he completely fails to generate anything tangible on the scoreboard. Sam is still poor at finishing, doesn't use his team mates worth a damn, and lets plays die on his stick. He's become this generation's Paul Ranheim. Love the hustle and energy, but the guy doesn't have the connection between the head and the hands to be effective in an offensive role. Bennett has become a 4th liner on this team, and it is hard to see Tkachuk remain an offensive force when he's tied to a guy like Bennett. Couple that with Ryan, and oy vey, Tkachuk is the only player on the line with the talent to make stuff happen. It is easy to see why he isn't scoring 5-on-5.

Bennett must've read this before the game

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Bennett must've read this before the game

If that what it takes him to score, I'll happily write something up before every game for Bennett to get his #### together.

[Jeff Lebowski]

What a great play he makes on the tying goal by Monahan (PHI). Hard shot along the ice, far pad. Fat rebound spit out and Monahan got to it but designed for that.

[Mattman]

I might be forgetting but has..

Tkachuk - Backlund - Neal been explored as a line yet?

That would be a pretty cool line I think.